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re: Options Trading Thread

Posted on 5/6/24 at 4:18 pm to
Posted by Brobocop
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2018
1905 posts
Posted on 5/6/24 at 4:18 pm to
Dropping in. Been a while since I’ve posted.

Sharing a fun little 0DTE “gamble” trade I’ve been doing with good success.

Essentially a SPX long Iron Fly (db) within the last 10 minutes.

Started playing with it in April.

How to:
Buy SPX ATM call/Put. Sell $5 wide call/put.
Attempt to buy for $3.00 or less within 10-5 minutes to exp.

Today’s trade. 2 lots.
-$5170P/$5175 C&P/-$5180C
Time: 2:54:24pm
$2.90db ea ($5.80 total)

Max loss for that example is $5.80 only if SPX exactly pins $5175.00.

SPX finished at $5180.73
Max Profit: $420
In 5 minutes.


Trade Stats (all 1 lot trades)
11 total trades.
9 Wins: $1218 (avg $135)
2 Losses: -$164 2 (avg $81)

Gross P/L: $1054
Fees: $148

Net P/L : $906

ETA: my personal rule.
I don’t like to buy on round “0” numbers. i.e. 5170 or 5180.
Maybe superstitious but I feel like SPX pins those numbers more often. No data to back that up. Lol
So that means you might not get filled at your target debit.
I also won’t put them on within like 3 min or less..
This post was edited on 5/6/24 at 4:25 pm
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
1288 posts
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:02 am to
@ Jag or anybody else.

I have a question on the down side to this trade.

Ticker is SQQQ.
- Pays a 9% divi
- it's at a low because the market is up. It goes higher as the market drops.
- Total cost per share, $10.50

SQQQ provides (-3x) inverse exposure to a modified market-cap-weighted index of 100 of the largest non-financial firms listed on the NASDAQ.
Index-Tracked: NASDAQ 100 TR USD

My reasoning for this purchase:

- If the market drops, this goes up offsetting some loses.
- Buy low, sell high right.
- I collect the divi
- I can sell calls on it weekly. I will not make but $5-15 on that.
- The market would have to scream in order for this to have any real loss.


OR

- Purchase a PMCC for 2 years out.
- The $7 strike is $4.75
- Purchase 2
- Sell calls on it.

I lean towards the first option due to the divi. It pays out $1.04 per year on a semi annual basis.


I'm looking for push back against this investment. What am I missing with this?
This post was edited on 5/14/24 at 11:07 am
Posted by frogtown
Member since Aug 2017
5058 posts
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:26 am to
quote:

Ticker is SQQQ.
- Pays a 9% divi
- it's at a low because the market is up. It goes higher as the market drops.
- Total cost per share, $10.50


You need to learn about contango. Google it.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
1288 posts
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:46 am to
Bumping for Jag and Friends
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
85115 posts
Posted on 5/15/24 at 7:07 pm to
quote:

I lean towards the first option due to the divi. It pays out $1.04 per year on a semi annual basis.


That’s not how SQQQ works. You should look into the “dividend” before going that route.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
1288 posts
Posted on 5/15/24 at 11:57 pm to
quote:

That’s not how SQQQ works. You should look into the “dividend” before going that route.



I have, I know it fluctuates. The point is to hedge while selling calls and collecting a dividend on it.

Here is the history of it LINK
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
85115 posts
Posted on 5/16/24 at 1:43 am to
Fair enough.

Purchasing/selling options on top of a 3x leveraged QQQ ETF just inherently seems like a bad idea to me, but if you understand how SQQQ works, good luck.

ETA - it feels like the financial equivalent of a martingale system.
This post was edited on 5/16/24 at 1:49 am
Posted by LSUtoOmaha
Nashville
Member since Apr 2004
26582 posts
Posted on 5/16/24 at 9:55 am to
Selling covered calls on SQQ is not going to make up for the brutal decay factor inherent in a 3x inverse leveraged ETF.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
1288 posts
Posted on 5/16/24 at 9:56 am to
quote:

Fair enough.

Purchasing/selling options on top of a 3x leveraged QQQ ETF just inherently seems like a bad idea to me, but if you understand how SQQQ works, good luck.


I've done it with TQQQ. Purchased at around $24. Sold calls on it.

I'm looking for push back on it. Always want to know the downside.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4126 posts
Posted on 5/16/24 at 10:02 am to
quote:

Bumping for Jag and Friends


Thanks.

Jag wishes the VIX/IV on SPX would pop, so that premiums would get off these minimum wage levels.

With the VIX being in the 12s, it’s difficult for me to do my “normal” trades without having to get too close to the flame, and my guidelines would force me to only use a small percentage of capital - not worth the risk. It’s put me on the sidelines as far as shorting index options this week. Pretty much all I’ve done is sell some contracts on earnings plays in my investment accounts (nothing in the trading account since last week). 15 delta WMT short puts printed nicely today.

If anything, with dirt cheap premiums, now would likely be a crossover point that could justify being net long or putting on debit trades.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4126 posts
Posted on 5/16/24 at 10:09 am to
quote:

Selling covered calls on SQQ is not going to make up for the brutal decay factor inherent in a 3x inverse leveraged ETF.


Not a product or strategy that I’ve ever looked into - mainly because of contango and the risk inherent in being long leveraged products.

So just a question here: have any of you looked at call credit spreads (being defined risk) or calendar strategies, rather than anything that involves being long the underlying?
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
1288 posts
Posted on 5/16/24 at 11:38 am to
quote:

With the VIX being in the 12s, it’s difficult for me to do my “normal” trades without having to get too close to the flame, and my guidelines would force me to only use a small percentage of capital - not worth the risk. It’s put me on the sidelines as far as shorting index options this week. Pretty much all I’ve done is sell some contracts on earnings plays in my investment accounts (nothing in the trading account since last week). 15 delta WMT short puts printed nicely today.

If anything, with dirt cheap premiums, now would likely be a crossover point that could justify being net long or putting on debit trades.


It's always a great feeling knowing that even when your wheelhouse is not working as well as you want, you have the knowledge to make it in other ways.

Personally, I really do enjoy our conversations here and thank you for taking the time to help others with what your forte' is.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
1288 posts
Posted on 5/16/24 at 11:39 am to
quote:

Selling covered calls on SQQ is not going to make up for the brutal decay factor inherent in a 3x inverse leveraged ETF.



Thank you for the response. Can I talk you into an example of what you are talking about.


Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
1288 posts
Posted on 5/16/24 at 12:36 pm to
To keep digging at this downside vs upside, here is an article I would like for you guys to counter when/if you have the time.


LINK


Leveraged ETFs: The Data Says We're Missing Out



- Long-term investors can expect to outperform broad market indexes when using leveraged ETFs so long as the overall leverage level of their portfolio is modest and they rebalance daily

- Hedge funds and trading firms can exploit specific nuances of these products that may not be correctly priced by the market



But from my experience on holding TQQQ, I don't see the horror to holding it long term. I purchased at the time the market was rebound and held the shares into the 50s while selling calls. My returns were great. In Jan 2023 it was $17 while SQQQ at $52. It's now reversed. SQQQ is at $10 while TQQQ is at $63.

I liquidated enough of my TQQQ to make my investment back plus profit. I do believe that markets go up, then they go down. Unforeseen events happen all the time.

My thoughts are that we are at an all time high with the market breaking 40K today. (which is why I am considering this) At some point it will drop. Not wishing for it, it may be 1 or 2 years, but it will pull back.


Posted by bayoumuscle21
St. George
Member since Jan 2012
4640 posts
Posted on 5/19/24 at 11:02 am to
GL Jan 105c
DV Jan 20c
PR July / OCT 17c
Aehr 12.5c Sept
Apps 2.5c. Jan 2026

Undervalued stocks with time...sell OI whenever comfortable and let ride...LULU on the horizon
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
1288 posts
Posted on 5/22/24 at 3:14 pm to
PMCC on RDDT. 2 years out.


Posted by frogtown
Member since Aug 2017
5058 posts
Posted on 5/22/24 at 4:01 pm to
quote:

Thank you for the response. Can I talk you into an example of what you are talking about.



Here is an example.

QQQ price on Dec 1/2021 was $398. SQQQ price $29.70.

Almost two years later.

QQQ price on Nov 1/2023 was $389. SQQQ price $16.02.

Pretty simple to understand.

Just take our advice and never hold a triple leveraged ETF long term.
This post was edited on 5/22/24 at 5:59 pm
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