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Started By
Message
re: They are sticking with Biden because they are rigging the 2024 election.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 1:45 pm to geauxbrown
Posted on 5/20/24 at 1:45 pm to geauxbrown
quote:
They're sticking with Biden because he's already beaten Trump once.
That's precisely what your nightly news told you.
0
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:50 pm to Mizzou Mule
Don't dems cheat at everything? It's always someone else's fault for everything. They have zero accountability for anything and with everything. That is just who they are
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:59 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
No doubt about it now. Too late to go with anyone else. Their plan is to rig the election. Why?
They are letting Biden tank and will replace him at the convention. That way there is no way to vet the candidate other than media approval
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:03 pm to GetmorewithLes
quote:
That way there is no way to vet the candidate other than media approval
Who was the last candidate the democrats really "vetted" in any other manner? I guess, maybe sort of, BILL Clinton?
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:09 pm to OchoDedos
Same place you get your tampons.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:16 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
That's pretty good shooting since Biden only won by about 500,000 votes spread across four swing states and over half of those were concentrated in Georgia.
Jotato won the election by less than 50K votes and those votes tallied in the key swing states that had all the late night election shenanigans.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:21 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
And he barely lost to Biden in 2020, which makes the "massive cheating" narrative very curious to me.
"Massive cheating" looks to me like winning by 20 million votes, not 90,000 in Michigan, 20,000 in Wisconsin, 50,000 in Pennsylvania, and a couple hundred thousand in Georgia.
That's cutting it awful close IMO when you are "massively cheating."
But then again, I keep being told that "it's obvious," so I suppose looking at numbers and asking whether that narrative makes any logical sense or not is a mistake. I should just go with "it's obvious" and turn my brain off after that.
Your argument completely ignores a logical possibility. There can still be massive cheating and a slim victory. Of course, it would mean that the crowd sizes at rallies actually were relevant, and I know you won't give up that argument. There's so few "Biden legitimately won" arguments that haven't been destroyed that you have to cling to ones like this that can't be disproven since "that doesn't mean anything" is just an opinion.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:36 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
Remember that fired WI election official where the email after election night to her was something to the effect of "Damn, you have a flair for the dramatic, there's just enough votes for Biden to be ahead by 0.1%", and she was basically, " LOL, I know, right?!"
This is a game to these sick fricks.
This is a game to these sick fricks.
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:51 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
quote:
They aren’t replacing him. I thought they would but they clearly arent. They wouldn’t be scheduling debates early if they were going to replace him.
Their play is to punt on 24.
Make don and republicans own the economy and inflation and come back in 28 with someone like Gavin.
It’s like Bob Dole. They let the old guy his last ride in the sun while the party as a whole is on a strategic retreat.
This is the correct answer IMO.
Honestly, I don't think the Democrats confidently expected to win in 2020. I think they hoped for a win and they did everything they could to try to win (including some cheating, although I think the "massive cheating" narrative is ridiculous), but I think they were a little surprised that Biden won.
I think they had that strategic retreat scheduled for last time around and had to pivot when Biden actually won. And what I think they pivoted to is having him advance an agenda that is so radical that nobody else would advance it in a first term b/c it virtually guarantees defeat in the re-election.
I think they figured he wouldn't make it through a second term anyway, so forget trying to win one.
I can't believe I'm even about to wade into this at all in this place, of all places...
But background:
The Republicans have always had one disadvantage:
Numbers. They're outnumbered. Electorally, and just registration/population-wise. Deeply Red States are also mostly small-population states.
Large-population states gain that population through big cities/large urban metros... which makes them tilt to being Blue states, because when you have hundreds of thousands or even millions of people living in close proximity to each other... well, to begin with, to make that choice they're on the Left, and it just pushing them further to the Left... their neighbor's problems are also their problems in that setting. It doesn't breed "small government, take care of yourself" thinking...
However, The Republicans had always had one BIG advantage: UNITY...
all the various parts of the Republican coalition were at peace with each other.
R 1) The Business First/Corporate/Wall Street types...
R 2) The high salary/highly educated Suburban professionals who carry the majority of the income tax burden...
R 3) The military-minded/National security community
R 4) The religious right/pro-Life community (which managed to flip Catholics from being Democrats because Socialism was a Catholic tenet)
R 5) The white working class in Right-To-Work states... the last group on board who were concerned with "government overreach (programs that they think prioritize the well-being of minority groups and immigrants over them)"
All a bunch of "single-issue" voters, and those issues didn't interfere with each other, and which contained the most reliable voters (groups 1-3).
Meanwhile, the Democrats had the opposite problem... they have a giant coalition that does not get along or want the same things...
D 1) Urban professionals (the same people as group 2 in Republicans, but who live inside urban city centers)
D 2) The highly-educated Urban/Academic segment
D 3) Labor Union members (a similar segment to group 5 above, but in states without Right-To-Work, where a Union's overall benefits make them loyal and eases their concerns about minority groups being among them)
D 4) Minority groups, which in a Venn diagram include subsets of all the groups above.
These groups are kind of at odds with one another... the Urban Professionals (D 1) want Social programs, because they have to step over the homeless when they leave their high-rise apartment buildings, but they want lower taxes on themselves, too, for instance, and are usually in conflict with group D 2 and D 3...
and group D 2 tends to be experts at having BIG MOUTHS amplified on Social Media and pissing everybody else off... they also presume to speak for everybody and know what's best for everybody... they also delight in making up new terms that no one else knows and bashing everybody over the head with them... they are the mighty cancel culture warriors, which tends to actually piss off the very ethnic groups they think they are speaking for, who see it as a type of oppression from above that they are potential victims of rather than in charge of...
So what usually happens is that one or more of these groups gets annoyed by a candidate or the party and general and underperforms (doesn't bother to vote) at the polls.
in 2016, Hillary Clinton threw herself at groups 1 and 2, and managed to not inspire enough of groups 3 and 4 that she lost "the blue wall" in the Midwest...
meanwhile, the Republican coalition held together enough (there were a few in Republican groups 1 and 2 who were turned off by Trump enough to not vote, or even cross over, but they were offset by another group Trump brought in, which I will get to in a minute) to pull off an Electoral College (but not popular vote) win.
Okay... so if he did it once, he could do it again, right?
Well, no... the various Democratic Party groups don't get along... which is why they need:
1) a candidate who has no specific policy things they're running on to piss off different groups
2) someone/something on the other side that unifies them as a single issue to oppose
Meanwhile, Trump didn't try to make amends with the people in groups R 1 (other than that big tax cut) and R 2 of the Republican coalition that had reservations about him, he doubled down and told them to frick off...
He did bring in a new group to the Republicans:
R 5.2) populists. Mostly Independents who were to the right of the Republican party (thought they were too liberal, or believe in the "uniparty" conspiracy) or people who had not voted in decades... if ever.
And though Trump added even more of group R 5.2 in 2020, he caused a bigger exodus of R 1 and R 2...
and he acted as a single issue to unify Democrats in opposition...
and then there's Independents...
there's right independents, who are to the right of the Republican party and think it's too Liberal, but who will NEVER vote for a Democrat.
There's center Right Independents, who a little to the Left of the GOP but who usually will not cross the line and vote for Democrats.
There's center Left Independents, who think the Democratic party is too Liveral but will usually not cross the line and vote for Republicans
and there's Left independents, who think the Decratic Party is too Conservative but will NEVER vote for a Republican.
Trump brought right Independents into group R 5...
But he also did something extraordinary...
not only did he get center-right Independents to vote for a Democrat...
He turned big chunks of R 1 and R 2 "temporarily" into center-right Independents who voted for a Democrat.
and he mostly unified the Democratic groups in opposition
so adding R 5 did not give him enough numbers to overcome all of that...
Groups R 1 and R 2 wanted him gone so they could have control of their party back...
And did they get it?
Nope. He's tripled and quadrupled down...
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:51 pm to Lee B
He's pushed that the election they helped decide is not legitimate, so he's telling "never-Trumpers" and Independents to the left of the GOP that their votes do not matter...
He's weighed in on primaries and local and mid-term and special elections to oppose their candidates and push his own choices who are loyal to him...
And he has, at this point, completely installed loyalists (and in-laws) in control of the RNC...
And he and his cadre of Trumpist Republicans have done things to make them angrier...
Tommy Tuberville pissed off the military (group R 3) by holding up promotions in the interests of abortion policy (R 4) so he's created a fight and resentment between two groups that were remaining...
And access to abortion in general has driven a lot of group R 2 outside the coalition... and any Culture War issues, which used to just be taken by R 1 and R 2 as a means to an end (winning at the polls) talking points and not something they actually had to worry about HAVE indeed become things they have to worry about...
And then there's the weird Pro-Russian/Putin aspect of MAGA that turns off a lot of R 3... who were raised to think Russians could not be trusted because of the very thing they are doing at the moment...
Trump and his cadre are actually fracturing the Republican coalition more and more and more with each passing day.
So he's making that temporary opposition group into a longer opposition group...
Now, the Democratis Party had one BIG agenda going into the 2020 mid-terms: making sure that Bernie Sanders did not win the nomination.
Did they fight this so hard because they thought he would lose the general? No, the opposite... they feared simple opposition to Trump would be enough to let Sanders actually win, and that would put group D 2 in control. It was an easy thing to derail, because group D 2 are not that big of a group, they just scream a lot all day on Twitter and camp out on college campuses/etc. so they look (and themselves believe) that they some supermajority of the public. They are not... they are a super minority of people who've gone to mostly elite Universities... and they actually are the first to ridicule and expel anyone trying to join the group and speak up who is not suitably academically qualified, so they can't grow.
When people talk about the Palestinian thing hurting Biden, they are saying group D 2 has the power and the numbers to do that... and they don't. Among college students polled, Palestine doesn't even make the top 5 concerns, while the economy and jobs are a runaway number 1. And, as in 2020, that group is stuck... if they want to decide other things that they scream about - like Women's Reproductive Choice, and a ban on Muslim immigration, etc. - is worth blowing off because they prioritize one issue that they'd actually be making worse if Biden loses (Trump is not going to push back against his old buddy Netanyahu like Biden has done a little), then great... but even if they are that dumb, they also mostly live in Democratic supermajority states where they won't make a difference, or in college towns in Red States where they don't usually make a difference, either.
So, in looking at the groups who voted for Biden in 2020, you can probably guess that most of them didn't like him for one reason or another... but they were voting against Trump.
Going into the 2012 election I can remember a lot of Rep commentators saying Obama would lose because his approval rating was only 45%... and I knew that meant nothing, because nobody I knew to the left of Obama (who was a Centrist... which I know some of you are screaming at disbelief in right now) could stand him... they were excited for the chance to tell posters they hated him... but then they had to vote for him again because they did not want Romney to win.
In addition to that group to his left whose only chance to register their unhappiness with Biden is to tell a pollster they don't approve of him in every way, he also has people to his right who voted for him, who are in the same position... they don't like him... and telling a pollster that they disapprove is their only chance to have that sentiment registered ( and this is why his disapproval rating is so high...) before they are forced to go into a poll booth and hold their nose again and vote for him, because they want Trump gone so the GOP can go back to what it used to be...
And I'm not sure it can or will...
So, I think maybe the Democratic Party will find itself adding lots of members of the Independent Center Right and R 1 and R 2 to its coalition, which then kind of minimizes the power of group D 2 even more, but also will be hard to square with group D 3 because they are the opposite sides of the Management/Capital VS. Labor fight which is the foundational principle of both parties in the post Civil War era.
Or after another humiliating loss (possibly worse this time) of the White House and almost everything else on the ticket Trump and Trumpism (meaning candidates he endorses... rogue Republicans who distance themselves from him still seem to do well in swing states) are pushed out of the Republican party for good... unless there's a quintupling down, which is not going to find many big $ donors willing to lose money on that...
And maybe like 7 previous times in our Country's history, we see a new party rise out and knock one of the other 2 out of existence. On that note, The Democratic party has been around since Thomas Jefferson founded it, though it's shifted its guiding principles a bit here and there over the years. The modern Republican Party dates from just before the Civil War, and when Lincoln was assassinated it was seized by Wall Street in its confusion about what it stood for after the war was won, as a "morally-superior (by association with Emancipation)" vehicle for them to push Capital/Supply-side economics against the traditional Democratic party Labor association. It almost did not survive the Great Depression... because being the party of bankers was not a popular position to be in at that time. Eisehower's heroic status gave it national office life line (and he was actually a Centrist who kind of pleased almost everybody)... Nixon revived it, before almost killing it, single-handedly... Reagan revived it, but by the time the dust settled in 1992 so many of the voters he's energized (R 5+R 4) had become disillusioned and dropped out, giving Clinton two easy wins... then 2000, where Gore won the popular vote and W Bush won the electoral college by state official and judicial activism... but by 2008, he'd pretty much sunken the Republican brand through neo-conservative military adverturism... I'd say maybe there won't be a nationally competitive GOP anymore...
But then I remember one of the dependable laws of this universe: Democrats engineer new ways to frick themselves up every hour.
He's weighed in on primaries and local and mid-term and special elections to oppose their candidates and push his own choices who are loyal to him...
And he has, at this point, completely installed loyalists (and in-laws) in control of the RNC...
And he and his cadre of Trumpist Republicans have done things to make them angrier...
Tommy Tuberville pissed off the military (group R 3) by holding up promotions in the interests of abortion policy (R 4) so he's created a fight and resentment between two groups that were remaining...
And access to abortion in general has driven a lot of group R 2 outside the coalition... and any Culture War issues, which used to just be taken by R 1 and R 2 as a means to an end (winning at the polls) talking points and not something they actually had to worry about HAVE indeed become things they have to worry about...
And then there's the weird Pro-Russian/Putin aspect of MAGA that turns off a lot of R 3... who were raised to think Russians could not be trusted because of the very thing they are doing at the moment...
Trump and his cadre are actually fracturing the Republican coalition more and more and more with each passing day.
So he's making that temporary opposition group into a longer opposition group...
Now, the Democratis Party had one BIG agenda going into the 2020 mid-terms: making sure that Bernie Sanders did not win the nomination.
Did they fight this so hard because they thought he would lose the general? No, the opposite... they feared simple opposition to Trump would be enough to let Sanders actually win, and that would put group D 2 in control. It was an easy thing to derail, because group D 2 are not that big of a group, they just scream a lot all day on Twitter and camp out on college campuses/etc. so they look (and themselves believe) that they some supermajority of the public. They are not... they are a super minority of people who've gone to mostly elite Universities... and they actually are the first to ridicule and expel anyone trying to join the group and speak up who is not suitably academically qualified, so they can't grow.
When people talk about the Palestinian thing hurting Biden, they are saying group D 2 has the power and the numbers to do that... and they don't. Among college students polled, Palestine doesn't even make the top 5 concerns, while the economy and jobs are a runaway number 1. And, as in 2020, that group is stuck... if they want to decide other things that they scream about - like Women's Reproductive Choice, and a ban on Muslim immigration, etc. - is worth blowing off because they prioritize one issue that they'd actually be making worse if Biden loses (Trump is not going to push back against his old buddy Netanyahu like Biden has done a little), then great... but even if they are that dumb, they also mostly live in Democratic supermajority states where they won't make a difference, or in college towns in Red States where they don't usually make a difference, either.
So, in looking at the groups who voted for Biden in 2020, you can probably guess that most of them didn't like him for one reason or another... but they were voting against Trump.
Going into the 2012 election I can remember a lot of Rep commentators saying Obama would lose because his approval rating was only 45%... and I knew that meant nothing, because nobody I knew to the left of Obama (who was a Centrist... which I know some of you are screaming at disbelief in right now) could stand him... they were excited for the chance to tell posters they hated him... but then they had to vote for him again because they did not want Romney to win.
In addition to that group to his left whose only chance to register their unhappiness with Biden is to tell a pollster they don't approve of him in every way, he also has people to his right who voted for him, who are in the same position... they don't like him... and telling a pollster that they disapprove is their only chance to have that sentiment registered ( and this is why his disapproval rating is so high...) before they are forced to go into a poll booth and hold their nose again and vote for him, because they want Trump gone so the GOP can go back to what it used to be...
And I'm not sure it can or will...
So, I think maybe the Democratic Party will find itself adding lots of members of the Independent Center Right and R 1 and R 2 to its coalition, which then kind of minimizes the power of group D 2 even more, but also will be hard to square with group D 3 because they are the opposite sides of the Management/Capital VS. Labor fight which is the foundational principle of both parties in the post Civil War era.
Or after another humiliating loss (possibly worse this time) of the White House and almost everything else on the ticket Trump and Trumpism (meaning candidates he endorses... rogue Republicans who distance themselves from him still seem to do well in swing states) are pushed out of the Republican party for good... unless there's a quintupling down, which is not going to find many big $ donors willing to lose money on that...
And maybe like 7 previous times in our Country's history, we see a new party rise out and knock one of the other 2 out of existence. On that note, The Democratic party has been around since Thomas Jefferson founded it, though it's shifted its guiding principles a bit here and there over the years. The modern Republican Party dates from just before the Civil War, and when Lincoln was assassinated it was seized by Wall Street in its confusion about what it stood for after the war was won, as a "morally-superior (by association with Emancipation)" vehicle for them to push Capital/Supply-side economics against the traditional Democratic party Labor association. It almost did not survive the Great Depression... because being the party of bankers was not a popular position to be in at that time. Eisehower's heroic status gave it national office life line (and he was actually a Centrist who kind of pleased almost everybody)... Nixon revived it, before almost killing it, single-handedly... Reagan revived it, but by the time the dust settled in 1992 so many of the voters he's energized (R 5+R 4) had become disillusioned and dropped out, giving Clinton two easy wins... then 2000, where Gore won the popular vote and W Bush won the electoral college by state official and judicial activism... but by 2008, he'd pretty much sunken the Republican brand through neo-conservative military adverturism... I'd say maybe there won't be a nationally competitive GOP anymore...
But then I remember one of the dependable laws of this universe: Democrats engineer new ways to frick themselves up every hour.
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 5/20/24 at 5:07 pm to Lee B
Cliff notes?
Posted on 5/20/24 at 5:18 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
Cliff notes?
There's enough people who are voting against Trump (not only Democrats, but Independents and some Republicans) that he will lose, fair and square, just like he did in 2020... probably by a larger margin. Biden's low approval ratings are because a lot of his voters to his Left and Right don't like him, and they want to make sure he and everybody else knows that, but they are still going to hold their nose and vote for him, because he is not Trump.
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 5/20/24 at 6:38 pm to Errerrerrwere
No, let DJT have 4 years to clean up JB's colossal failures and he is no longer relevant...MAGA passes with him
Posted on 5/20/24 at 6:55 pm to Lee B
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:01 pm to ShinerHorns
quote:
Trump has played this masterfully. He knows what to look for this time and the libs are falling right in to his trap.
I had to laugh tearfully thinking how the Merchan court got through today after being setback with the testimony of former POTUS Trump lawyer followed by the attempted testimony of the same former POTUS Trump lawyer's lawyer.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:12 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
They are sticking with Biden because they are rigging the 2024 election.
That’s right. The signal of confirmation was faking the helicopter crash with the Iranian president. The Dems faked the crash to make Biden look tough, but actually it clears the way for Obama to take over.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:25 pm to VoxDawg
I'm endlessly amused by people who come onto message boards that don't want to read, which means they don't want to think, which means this is all a giant waste of time and people just want a sentence and a meme that tells them whatever they already want to think.
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:27 pm to Errerrerrwere
If theyre sticking with biden, its because theyre looking for a scapegoat for his policies this term.
They know the next POTUS has a mess to deal with.
They know the next POTUS has a mess to deal with.
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:28 pm to Errerrerrwere
It’s the only play they have but there’s no cOViD protocol cover this time.
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:29 pm to Lee B
quote:
people just want a sentence
Honestly, you gave them that as well.
quote:
Biden's low approval ratings are because a lot of his voters to his Left and Right don't like him, and they want to make sure he and everybody else knows that, but they are still going to hold their nose and vote for him, because he is not Trump.
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