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re: First baseman had wrong foot on the bag restricting his ability to stretch for the throw
Posted on 5/11/24 at 3:02 pm to tigersbb
Posted on 5/11/24 at 3:02 pm to tigersbb
quote:
You just made my point. Had he set up with his right foot on the bag he would have been able to stretch and catch the ball inside the field of play before it ever reached the foul line.
That doesn’t make what Jones did incorrect though. It’s fundamental baseball to setup the exact way Jones was. Opens up a major window for Milazzo to deliver.
2
Posted on 5/11/24 at 4:44 pm to vidtiger23
quote:
That doesn’t make what Jones did incorrect though. It’s fundamental baseball to setup the exact way Jones was. Opens up a major window for Milazzo to deliver.
I disagree. It limited his flexibility and reduced his stretch radius. He was frozen when the throw went off target as he could not stretch to make the catch inside the field of play and would have to dive into the runner to try to make the catch in foul territory. The ball appears to be within range of being caught with a stretch move. Even if not it was certainly within range of being caught by jumping toward home plate inside the field of play. His positioning froze him into only being able to catch a good throw right at the bag. Milazzo made a bad throw but it was still a salvageable play.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 4:54 pm to tigersbb
quote:
The right handed first baseman should have had his right foot on the bag which would have allowed for him to stretch further and possibly catch the ball.
This is stupid
Posted on 5/11/24 at 4:58 pm to tigersbb
quote:
The right handed first baseman should have had his right foot on the bag which would have allowed for him to stretch further and possibly catch the ball
completely wrong
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:02 pm to dkreller
quote:
The right handed first baseman should have had his right foot on the bag which would have allowed for him to stretch further and possibly catch the ball.
This is stupid
The proof is in the result of the play. Other than your worthless comment you did nothing to prove me wrong.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:08 pm to vidtiger23
quote:
That doesn’t make what Jones did incorrect though. It’s fundamental baseball to setup the exact way Jones was. Opens up a major window for Milazzo to deliver.
Best case scenario that may be good in theory and if Milazzo executes then its all a moot point. However, once Milazzo failed to take advantage of that precious window some of you hold on to for dear life Jones became at a clear disadvantage and was frozen in his position.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:10 pm to tigersbb
You’re using hindsight to make an argument that is fundamentally wrong and stupid.
The only way he should use his right foot on the bag with a throw coming from home plate is if he’s lining up in foul territory. In that situation (and the runner is in his lane), you’re giving absolutely no throwing window.
Even still, if you’re using your right foot and lined up in fair play, you limit your ability to react to a throw wide left.
You always line up for the best possible scenario. Milazzo made the worst possible throw imaginable and there’s not much anyone could’ve done about it.
Eta it doesn’t matter if you’re a righty or a lefty. The rules are the same in that situation.
The only way he should use his right foot on the bag with a throw coming from home plate is if he’s lining up in foul territory. In that situation (and the runner is in his lane), you’re giving absolutely no throwing window.
Even still, if you’re using your right foot and lined up in fair play, you limit your ability to react to a throw wide left.
You always line up for the best possible scenario. Milazzo made the worst possible throw imaginable and there’s not much anyone could’ve done about it.
Eta it doesn’t matter if you’re a righty or a lefty. The rules are the same in that situation.
This post was edited on 5/11/24 at 5:13 pm
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:12 pm to tigersbb
quote:
The proof is in the result of the play. Other than your worthless comment you did nothing to prove me wrong.
That’s not proof at all. You’re wrong.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:20 pm to vidtiger23
quote:
The proof is in the result of the play. Other than your worthless comment you did nothing to prove me wrong.
That’s not proof at all. You’re wrong.
Once again, you did nothing to justify your position. The play clearly had a bad result, put in motion by a poor throw for which there was no way to salvage the play because of Jones positioning. I presented a viable solution which became impossible because he was landlocked with his left foot against the bag and the only alternative left was to jump across the base line across the runner. You did nothing to refute my position.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:28 pm to tigersbb
quote:
Once again, you did nothing to justify your position. The play clearly had a bad result, put in motion by a poor throw for which there was no way to salvage the play because of Jones positioning. I presented a viable solution which became impossible because he was landlocked with his left foot against the bag and the only alternative left was to jump across the base line across the runner. You did nothing to refute my position.
Because it’s simple I didn’t think I’d have to explain it. If Jones right leg is on first two things can happen. The first is if Milazzo’s throw is the exact same, then Jones can attempt to make a play and most likely have the same result. Only other result is he catches it and face plants into the runners knees. The second thing is if Milazzo makes the appropriate throw (towards the field side), he has a tougher grab to get the out going across his body. All that with very little reaction time.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:29 pm to dkreller
quote:
The only way he should use his right foot on the bag with a throw coming from home plate is if he’s lining up in foul territory. In that situation (and the runner is in his lane), you’re giving absolutely no throwing window.
Even still, if you’re using your right foot and lined up in fair play, you limit your ability to react to a throw wide left.
He doesn't have to line up in foul territory. He could establish his right foot against the corner of the base in FAIR TERRITORY with his glove up at chest height presenting a target .Now he has much flexibility to stretch left or right or even up and down if the throw is not on target. The most difficult catch in that position would be an errant throw to the inside of the field which might sail into the outfield. The most likely scenario for an errant throw is exactly what happened and Jones could haver likely caught it even if it pulled him away from the bag.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:37 pm to vidtiger23
quote:
Because it’s simple I didn’t think I’d have to explain it. If Jones right leg is on first two things can happen. The first is if Milazzo’s throw is the exact same, then Jones can attempt to make a play and most likely have the same result. Only other result is he catches it and face plants into the runners knees. The second thing is if Milazzo makes the appropriate throw (towards the field side), he has a tougher grab to get the out going across his body. All that with very little reaction time.
I didn't say stand with his foot across the bag. He should set his right foot AGAINST the bag with his body in a semi crouch allowing him flexibility to move in either direction and catch the damn ball in the field of play without " face planitng" into the runner. When he sees the ball is off target he has the option to stretch and maintain contact with the base which seems plausible by the photos. But even if the throw was farther up the line a quick step and/ or lunge toward home makes it likely the ball doesn't leave the field. I agree an errant throw toward the infield side would be more challenging but the odds of that are far less than what did happen.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:41 pm to tigersbb
quote:
The most difficult catch in that position would be an errant throw to the inside of the field which might sail into the outfield.
The target to throw at is 3-4’ from the bag in fair play. An errant throw further towards second base and all the first baseman has to do is open up his stance or worst case step off to make the catch.
Milazzo missed the mark by damn near 15’.
Herring should’ve fielded the ball. Instead we got a rushed throw by Milazzo and he fricked the dog.
This post was edited on 5/11/24 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:44 pm to tigersbb
quote:
He should set his right foot AGAINST the bag with his body in a semi crouch allowing him flexibility to move in either direction
So he should stand in a position ready to be trucked by the runner.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:46 pm to tigersbb
quote:
The proof is in the result of the play.
We've found the real issue. You are only concerned about outcome, not process. If you do the little things right all the time, they will work out over the long-term. You are focused on what would be the non-fundamental play that may have worked once last night, but it not the correct baseball play, because over time it fricks you more than helps you.
And you seem to not be able to comprehend just how little reaction time Jones had. Milazzo's got a great arm and probably threw that ball 90 mph+. From 45 (ish) feet. And that aint like 90 from 60 feet 6 inches. That gets on you quick. No time to react any better than he did. But you can't see the forest for the trees. Standing where Bear was will record many more put outs from the catcher if he continues to do what he is being fundamentally taught.
Regardless, what a strange hill to die on here.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:54 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
We've found the real issue. You are only concerned about outcome, not process. If you do the little things right all the time, they will work out over the long-term. You are focused on what would be the non-fundamental play that may have worked once last night, but it not the correct baseball play, because over time it fricks you more than helps you.
The fallacy in your position is you are assuming all throws from that area will generally be on target and the runner has only average speed. So what happens if either the catcher doesn't have a gun like Milazzo or the runner is very fast . Using your preferred play limits the ability for the first basemen to stretch whereas in my argument he would be able to catch the ball at least a foot farther out which could be the difference in safe or out.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:57 pm to tigersbb
Using your logic, a catcher should always line up in the empty batter box in case the pitcher throws a wild pitch.
This post was edited on 5/11/24 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 5/11/24 at 5:58 pm to dkreller
quote:
He should set his right foot AGAINST the bag with his body in a semi crouch allowing him flexibility to move in either direction
So he should stand in a position ready to be trucked by the runner.
Nope. He should have his right foot and not his left against the corner of the bag, not straddling the bag. The runner is irrelevant at that point.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 6:02 pm to dkreller
quote:
Using your logic, a catcher should always line up in the empty batter box in case the pitcher throws a wild pitch.
Nope. Catcher stays right where he is and has the flexibility to catch a pitch on either side of the plate. YOUR suggestion virtually eliminates the ability to catch a pitch other than in a limited range which is what happened on the throw in last night's game. Thank you for making my argument for me.
Posted on 5/11/24 at 6:03 pm to tigersbb
Again…you’re suggesting that he position himself in a way that makes it more difficult to catch the ball where it SHOULD be thrown.
I am a righty and I played 1st base….not that it means anything to you because you are clearly dug in on this one.
I am a righty and I played 1st base….not that it means anything to you because you are clearly dug in on this one.
This post was edited on 5/11/24 at 6:03 pm
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