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Arming Israel versus Ukraine

Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:04 pm
Posted by boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
80452 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:04 pm
Give me your best juxtaposition on both.

I see both as victims of wars of aggression. I see both as convenient allies of the US when it serves them.

I see both sitting in geographic hotspots where we could potentially exert power from.

I see both engaging in massive lobbying of Congress and policymaking.

This isn’t a gotcha. True isolationism means retreat from both (and also Taiwan). Modified MAGA says we can pick and choose which foreign intervention works for us.

I acknowledge this board encompasses a significant strain of what’s going on in the right wing of our politics, but I’m begging for some guiding principles
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 9:15 pm
Posted by Seldom Seen
Member since Feb 2016
40630 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:09 pm to
There's a connection between both countries. Another poster mentioned it on another thread but I don't want to be the one to talk about it cause the admins already have it out for me.
Posted by sta4ever
The Pit
Member since Aug 2014
15400 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:14 pm to
For the case of Israel, it’s because the Christian Bible says so.
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 9:15 pm
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
74500 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:17 pm to
How is Ukraine an ally?
Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
36295 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:21 pm to
You're a guy in Indiana working at a plant. Your wife picks up shifts at the diner to make ends meat. What does an interventionist foreign policy do for you? Your blue collar buddies who want to escape the Rust Belt will be the ones who fight in our overseas conflicts, while the Ivy League dilettantes and the MSM millionaires call these folks "privileged" because of their skin color. Do you want to die because Bill Kristol and David Frum have a historical grudge against the Romanovs or Muslims?
Posted by FoTownBam
Foley Al
Member since Oct 2023
1525 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:23 pm to
I have no problem with arming either country, as long as my tax dollars aren’t buying them.
Posted by NPComb
Member since Jan 2019
27521 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:26 pm to
quote:

Give me your best juxtaposition on both.


I know you won't like the "isolationists" answer but screw Israel, Middle East, Russia and Ukraine. Have you read about the threat to social security? When SS started it was designed to only take 2% of your gross income. It's hovering around 12% now. Luckily, I have other investments to offset that but 10's of millions do not.

Let the rest of the world bomb the shite out of each other. IDGAF. Stop funding foreign wars on our children's and grandchildren's futures.
Posted by Red Stick Rambler
Member since Jun 2011
1192 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:27 pm to
quote:

Give me your best juxtaposition on both.


If Netanyahu were an American politician he would be a Republican.

If Zelinski were an American politician he would be a Social Democrat (and a member of the Squad)
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
18059 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:29 pm to
quote:

I’m begging for some guiding principles


Blondes are more fun?



Posted by Captain Rumbeard
Member since Jan 2014
4224 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:34 pm to
I'd stop it to both. And what we're sending to the other sides. Stop printing cash for this shite at the expense of my ability to buy food please. Yes I know what that's gonna do to your ratheon stock but you're gonna kill the species sooooooo...
Posted by baybeefeetz
Member since Sep 2009
31662 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:35 pm to
I got this one. Arming Ukraine is fighting a war with Russia. We don't want war with Russia for several reasons.

Honestly war with Hamas not so bad.
Posted by BlackPawnMartyr
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2010
15346 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:18 pm to
Israel has got a big mouth when we have their back. When we act like we may not have their back they pretend they dont need us. It would be nice to completely cut the chord with them and let the chips fall where they will.
Posted by Tandemjay
Member since Jun 2022
2508 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:23 pm to
Ukraine has a division made up of literal neo nazi's.
Israel doesn't.
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
13070 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:38 pm to
The American taxpayer shouldn’t be paying to arm either one.
Posted by dafif
Member since Jan 2019
5661 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:02 pm to
If you do not understand the difference between Ukraine and Israel nobody can help you
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
26775 posts
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:51 pm to
quote:

guiding principles

When it comes to foreign policy, the only guiding principle should be doing what’s best for the United States on a case-by-case basis.
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 11:54 pm
Posted by Tall Tiger
Dixie
Member since Sep 2007
3292 posts
Posted on 5/10/24 at 12:14 am to
One country is a democracy and a U.S. ally. The other one is not.
Posted by TenWheelsForJesus
Member since Jan 2018
6689 posts
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:21 am to
quote:

True isolationism means retreat from both (and also Taiwan). Modified MAGA says we can pick and choose which foreign intervention works for us.


Rational people don't deal in absolutes. I'm an isolationist but I understand the importance of Taiwan. As an isolationist, I also support manufacturing necessities like microchips at home so we don't have to worry about countries like Taiwan. There is no such need from Ukraine or Israel.

"Modified MAGA" is simply using common sense and realizing that the world isn't black & white.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
50905 posts
Posted on 5/10/24 at 1:37 am to
I'm fine selling them weapons. Giving them weapons is a waste of money that we don't have.
Posted by thetempleowl
dallas, tx
Member since Jul 2008
14884 posts
Posted on 5/10/24 at 6:33 am to
quote:

guiding principles


Understand that we should do things that enhance our position in the world and disregard the stuff that doesn't.

Understand further that just about anything can enhance our position and you understand the gotcha.

So you gotta go bang for your buck type of thing which takes a more nuanced approach. Also you have the ability for both carrot and stick type of diplomacy and both can work.

One needs to understand these to do it correctly. Trump understood this.

Biden based his policy on a don't lose type of proposition and when you play not to lose you also don't play too soon so you inevitably screw things up. Some screw things up catastrophically with this type of approach and biden does this.
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