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Message
re: How do you feel about young NY investment bankers being worked 80-100 weeks?
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:53 pm to Thundercles
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:53 pm to Thundercles
We're probably not being told the whole story. If you're consistently working 80-100 hours a week from a desk job, you didn't die from the work itself, you probably died from abusing stimulants, whether that be caffeine or, most likely, Adderall, and then, obviously, no sleep.
To do that amount of hours on a consistent basis, stimulants are almost always involved.
I used to work 100 hour weeks on the road for months on end, fueled by youth, whiskey, and copious quantities of Adderall. I knew I had to get out and change my life or I was going to die. No human being works themselves to death behind a computer screen and telephone without the aid of drugs to do it. It's not possible. Physiologically, it's not possible unless obesity were to get you.
In a coal mine circa 1929, a rice paddy in Vietnam circa 1969, a LeBron James Chinese sweat shop circa 2024? Sure. You could work yourself to death, but you're not dying from being behind a computer in the year 2024 unless you are pushing your body to the absolute limit with sleep, and that requires drugs to get to that point.
Just say no to shitty employers. And drugs. Especially from doctors.
To do that amount of hours on a consistent basis, stimulants are almost always involved.
I used to work 100 hour weeks on the road for months on end, fueled by youth, whiskey, and copious quantities of Adderall. I knew I had to get out and change my life or I was going to die. No human being works themselves to death behind a computer screen and telephone without the aid of drugs to do it. It's not possible. Physiologically, it's not possible unless obesity were to get you.
In a coal mine circa 1929, a rice paddy in Vietnam circa 1969, a LeBron James Chinese sweat shop circa 2024? Sure. You could work yourself to death, but you're not dying from being behind a computer in the year 2024 unless you are pushing your body to the absolute limit with sleep, and that requires drugs to get to that point.
Just say no to shitty employers. And drugs. Especially from doctors.
2
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:57 pm to fareplay
Most MDs make it to that level at around 36-40 years old. They make plenty along the way, the director level one step below can make around $750k before MD status. The VP level can make anywhere from $400k-$650k if it’s a VP—>Director structure (some have the director before MD and some shops like GS don’t). Then it’s usually $1mm+ as MD or you are doing something wrong and shown the door.
It’s a tough road, with the most talented the past decade going off into the private equity or other high finance investment roles and not staying the IB track. Nowadays the lesser talents stick around to make it MD in banking, very few want to be in client service or they are the rare bird that loves it. It’s a shitty role and these guys look awful and are extremely cynical with the rare exception.
Bottom line, the real talent and those with intelligence end up going to invest money and make more usually - the donkeys that work hard stay the banking track and kill themselves bc there’s no other way they could make so much money with their talents or lack thereof.
I’m rambling - but with all that said, this poor guy was trying to give his a family a better life, was treating his role like a military mission and lost his life in the process. My heart breaks for his wife and beautiful kids. I donated to the go fund me as someone who has been thru the WS grind and young kids his age - it struck a chord with me.
No one should have to work that many hours in any role, he should’ve quit but they prob took advantage of his mindset.
frick B of A and frick Gary Howe this MD overseeing this deal and playing a role in this guys death. As an MD myself but on the investing side and thankfully not as some dumbass Ibank, I would never let one of my juniors do this and I would send that kid home to his family to get some damn sleep. Shameful.
It’s a tough road, with the most talented the past decade going off into the private equity or other high finance investment roles and not staying the IB track. Nowadays the lesser talents stick around to make it MD in banking, very few want to be in client service or they are the rare bird that loves it. It’s a shitty role and these guys look awful and are extremely cynical with the rare exception.
Bottom line, the real talent and those with intelligence end up going to invest money and make more usually - the donkeys that work hard stay the banking track and kill themselves bc there’s no other way they could make so much money with their talents or lack thereof.
I’m rambling - but with all that said, this poor guy was trying to give his a family a better life, was treating his role like a military mission and lost his life in the process. My heart breaks for his wife and beautiful kids. I donated to the go fund me as someone who has been thru the WS grind and young kids his age - it struck a chord with me.
No one should have to work that many hours in any role, he should’ve quit but they prob took advantage of his mindset.
frick B of A and frick Gary Howe this MD overseeing this deal and playing a role in this guys death. As an MD myself but on the investing side and thankfully not as some dumbass Ibank, I would never let one of my juniors do this and I would send that kid home to his family to get some damn sleep. Shameful.
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 11:03 pm
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:03 pm to Rendevoustavern
quote:
These kids are soft.
The guy who died was a green beret.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:15 pm to mudshuvl05
Yes dumbass he was consuming energy drinks. The job still is a major culprit here, how dense are you?
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:19 pm to mudshuvl05
quote:
mudshuvl05
We're probably not being told the whole story. If you're consistently working 80-100 hours a week from a desk job, you didn't die from the work itself, you probably died from abusing stimulants, whether that be caffeine or, most likely, Adderall, and then, obviously, no sleep.
For real. This guy didnt die from working. He died from other shite thats attributed to his work.
People work in equal environments all the time. They just dont make the money these guys make so it would never make the news.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:21 pm to billjamin
Not 50 at a time. If a bank office in a city closes 12 deals in a year, then that's a very good year. These are $100 mil to $5 bil+ deals. 1 alone has a lot that goes with it. They're also working on other deals that no one wants to buy that never really gets them paid besides a retainer fee.
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 11:22 pm
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:24 pm to CHGAR
This dude was a green beret not some soy ivy leaguer. Y’all can’t read just have to tell some honkey blue collar story about how badass you are
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:24 pm to PGAOLDBawNeVaBroke
quote:so dense to where you agree with me by acknowledging that the culprit wasn't the work itself, but the worker's lifestyle. A desk will never kill a man, no more than a piece of blued steel and a brass casing full of gunpowder and lead sitting in a gun safe will kill a man on its own.
Yes dumbass he was consuming energy drinks. The job still is a major culprit here, how dense are you?
But you're an emotional pussy, so you can't see that. You need to calm down, you're acting like your mother.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:25 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
If they were so smart and hardworking they’d start their own business and get paid way more. I think they do it for the prestige and the lifestyle and the money is just a way to measure your dick.
Many of them end up doing just that (or starting their own PE or VC or hedge funds, or go into commercial real estate, sports ownership, or whatever else) after they leave IB. They leverage banking for the connections, the access to capital, and the talent pool that a fella from Little Rock or Sheboygan can’t get and become ultra wealthy. You should look at how many of the richest 500 - 1,000 Americans have some sort of stint at a bank at some point early in their careers - it’s kind of eye-popping.
The lifetime economic value of having Morgan Stanley or Goldman or Evercore or Lazard (or similar) investment banking on your resume is extraordinary. How many Treasury Secretaries have there been in the last fifty years who didn’t have at least some experience at a bulge bracket?
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:25 pm to CHGAR
You're saying you brought home $2 million last year on your W2 or 1099 for running a directional boring machines under roads? I'm sorry, but no you did not. No way you made 2.5x what Brock Purdy brought home last year doing that.
I'm not saying at all you can't make good money doing that, but $2,000,000 in pre-tax you made off it? I call BS.
I'm not saying at all you can't make good money doing that, but $2,000,000 in pre-tax you made off it? I call BS.
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 11:27 pm
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:26 pm to mudshuvl05
Take your mud shovel back to the Aggie board bud your point is beyond stupid - durrr it wasn’t the desk that killed him durrrr
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:31 pm to Sterling Archer
Exactly, they have no clue what’s even going on but have to tell their story. Main character syndrome isn’t just for gen z, it’s for OT boomers lol
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:32 pm to PGAOLDBawNeVaBroke
quote:Oh you're melting hard now. Calm down. Just take a breath and calm. down. It's going to be okay little buddy.
Take your mud shovel back to the Aggie board bud your point is beyond stupid - durrr it wasn’t the desk that killed him durrrr
Also, since I've got those soft arse little hands *literally* shaking, the work I spoke of earlier wasn't bLuE cOLLaR work, it was COO desk work to the tune of gross receipts well into the 8 digits per quarter. It almost killed me because I worked 100 hour weeks and abused Rx drugs to do it.
We're sorry your friend went ham on the Adderall. Just say no to shitty employers and Rx drugs.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:34 pm to HempHead
quote:
160k, even with NY taxes and NYC CoL, is still an incredible sum to be making as a new graduate.
It's pretty meh for 2-2.5 jobs.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:36 pm to Bunk Moreland
How it starts is a large company say BP has assets that they want to sell for whatever reason. They talk with different banks (JPM, Goldman, Jeffries, Credit Suisse, Scotia, Evercore, Bank of America, RBC) and figure out which would be best to have pitch it to other oil companies to buy. These banks can either act as financial advisors where they just help connect a buyer with a seller and negotiate a price, or they can actually supply debt themselves to buyer (only large banks like JPM or Goldman or BOA can afford to do it, boutiques like Evercore can't do it).
So BP wants to sell Haynesville assets. What an analyst will do is created a Net Present Value or Discounted Cash flow model to show what BP asset is worth (called net asset valuation for O&G). They accumulate all producing and future producing wells figure out what revenue-costs will be and then discount them back at the cost of capital (debt interest or equity expected return) to the buyer. That NPV is what the buyer should pay for it.
In reality, the reservoir engineers and finance analysts at the bank wayyyy overinflate how good the wells are, put way lower opex than actuality, and put in all these little tricks and nannies to inflate price of assets. They do this so their 2% advisory fee is bigger. After that they make powerpoints of the oil assets. Make the wells look good. Show very low decline rates on graphs. Show the area. THEY ALWAYS DO THIS: they show how BP or whoever has the very best Tier 1 wells in the area and have Tier 1 opex lowest cost compared to all others in the area. They show financial statements of their financial models. What the IRR is. What the reserves are for producing, and undeveloped fields.
After that, they put it all in data rooms for buyer to look at the pwpt and excel. They then visit the buyer in person and try to pitch the asset to them via pwpt and get them to buy it. After that it's term sheets and Purchase and Sales agreements but that's between buyer and seller and not really the banks. Banks may help a little. After they buy bankers get 2%. A $1 billion sale will take home $20 mil to bankers. They have no actual expenses besides overhead, so $20 mil is a lot split amongst employees in the office. So on and so forth.
Basically all investment bankers are is a middle man. That is it. I think they are pointless as are all middle men. Only when they can provide debt to buyer to help them buy the asset which only large banks like JPM or GS or BOA can do is in my opinion where they add value. Middle men are never needed imo.
So BP wants to sell Haynesville assets. What an analyst will do is created a Net Present Value or Discounted Cash flow model to show what BP asset is worth (called net asset valuation for O&G). They accumulate all producing and future producing wells figure out what revenue-costs will be and then discount them back at the cost of capital (debt interest or equity expected return) to the buyer. That NPV is what the buyer should pay for it.
In reality, the reservoir engineers and finance analysts at the bank wayyyy overinflate how good the wells are, put way lower opex than actuality, and put in all these little tricks and nannies to inflate price of assets. They do this so their 2% advisory fee is bigger. After that they make powerpoints of the oil assets. Make the wells look good. Show very low decline rates on graphs. Show the area. THEY ALWAYS DO THIS: they show how BP or whoever has the very best Tier 1 wells in the area and have Tier 1 opex lowest cost compared to all others in the area. They show financial statements of their financial models. What the IRR is. What the reserves are for producing, and undeveloped fields.
After that, they put it all in data rooms for buyer to look at the pwpt and excel. They then visit the buyer in person and try to pitch the asset to them via pwpt and get them to buy it. After that it's term sheets and Purchase and Sales agreements but that's between buyer and seller and not really the banks. Banks may help a little. After they buy bankers get 2%. A $1 billion sale will take home $20 mil to bankers. They have no actual expenses besides overhead, so $20 mil is a lot split amongst employees in the office. So on and so forth.
Basically all investment bankers are is a middle man. That is it. I think they are pointless as are all middle men. Only when they can provide debt to buyer to help them buy the asset which only large banks like JPM or GS or BOA can do is in my opinion where they add value. Middle men are never needed imo.
This post was edited on 5/9/24 at 11:57 pm
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:41 pm to partyboy1930
quote:
No you didn’t. You’re full of shite.
He's not the only one..
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:42 pm to Saunson69
quote:
How it starts is a large company say BP has assets that they want to sell for whatever reason. They talk with different banks (JPM, Goldman, Jeffries, Credit Suisse, Scotia, Evercore, Bank of America, RBC) and figure out which would be best to have pitch it to other oil companies to buy. These banks can either act as financial advisors where they just help connect a buyer with a seller and negotiate a price, or they can actually supply debt themselves to buyer (only large banks like JPM or Goldman or BOA can afford to do it, boutiques like Evercore can't do it). So BP wants to sell Haynesville assets. What an analyst will do is created a Net Present Value or Discounted Cash flow model to show what BP asset is worth. They accumulate all producing and future producing wells figure out what revenue-costs will be and then discount them back at the cost of capital (debt interest or equity expected return) to the buyer. That NPV is what the buyer should pay for it. In reality, the reservoir engineers and finance analysts at the bank wayyyy overinflate how good the wells are, put way lower opex than actuality, and put in all these little tricks and nannies to inflate price of assets. They do this so their 2% advisory fee is bigger. After that they make powerpoints of the oil assets. Make the wells look good. Show very low decline rates on graphs. Show the area. THEY ALWAYS DO THIS: they show how BP or whoever has the very best Tier 1 wells in the area and have Tier 1 opex lowest cost compared to all others in the area. They show financial statements of their financial models. What the IRR is. What the reserves are for producing, and undeveloped fields. After that, they put it all in data rooms for buyer to look at the pwpt and excel. They then visit the buyer in person and try to pitch the asset to them via pwpt and get them to buy it. After they buy they get 2%. A $1 billion sale will take home $20 mil to bankers. They have no actual expenses besides overhead, so $20 mil is a lot split amongst employees in the office. So on and so forth
The big caveat to all this is that the buyers also have bankers (and consultants) advising them on the deal the whole way through, doing the strategic, commercial, and operational diligence every step of the way. So they aren’t - or shouldn’t be - rolling in blind just taking the word of the seller. And the seller also typically has other advisors - especially consultants and attorneys - advising them every step of the way as well.
Information opacity is why bankers, consultants, and corporate attorneys are such an integral part of the process. It’s a core part of capitalism.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:42 pm to Saunson69
So.....BPX is about to divest its Haynesville assets?
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:45 pm to Thundercles
My wife made 60-72k during a five-year residency working 75-85 hours a week. Both physically and mentally enduring, critically thinking while operating for hours at a time.
I think the frat bros will survive
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:45 pm to Thundercles
You need to make the millions after a couple yrs to afford the coke addiction that got you through the previous yrs.
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