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Message
re: Florida deputy fatally shot US airman that answered the door with a gun
Posted on 5/10/24 at 8:57 am to lostinbr
Posted on 5/10/24 at 8:57 am to lostinbr
quote:
I said this earlier in the thread, but it’s disconcerting and it’s not like a normal person knocking on the door.
B/c people that are coming to shoot you knock on the door loudly. That's generally how people get murdered, so yeah you should be worried someone is after you when they knock like that at 430PM.
quote:
He could have not shot the guy immediately.
i 100% agree. He should have pointed the gun at him immediately and yelled at him to drop the weapon.
quote:
He also could have announced himself as police the first time he beat on the door.
why does that matter? It's 430PM.
He announced it the next two times b/c he wasn't getting an answer, and probably figured if he says he's the police he'll get an answer, which he did.
quote:
He could have gone back down to check with the lady who gave him directions when he realized they were conflicting (she told him to go one way, but the apt number she gave him was the other way).
He went to the right apartment.
quote:
I don’t think opening the door with a gun in his hand was smart by the resident. But I also don’t think that makes it the resident’s fault. The fact that he could have taken steps to avoid being shot doesn’t suddenly make it lawful.
at no point have i said it was unlawful what he did. i said it was stupid and he deserves some blame for what happened.
Anytime you bring a gun out to any situation, you've now escalated that situation. Any responsible gun owner understands that. It's not a toy, and it's not a device to simply use as a threat. You bring a gun out, you better be ready to use it wisely.
Opening the door at 430PM to a guy announcing to you he's a cop, and then standing there with the gun clearly in your hand isn't smart. Even if it wasn't a cop, it's still stupid to do. legal yes. stupid. yes.
3
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:14 am to TeddyPadillac
If you get executed by an agent of the government for exercising your Constitutional right while in your domicile it is a problem. Period.
BTW I love how the cop screams drop the gun after putting 6 rounds in him but not before.
BTW I love how the cop screams drop the gun after putting 6 rounds in him but not before.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:26 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Opening the door at 430PM to a guy announcing to you he's a cop, and then standing there with the gun clearly in your hand isn't smart. Even if it wasn't a cop, it's still stupid to do. legal yes. stupid. yes.
This means it’s a bad shoot and cop should faces legal and civil consequences.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:28 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
B/c people that are coming to shoot you knock on the door loudly. That's generally how people get murdered, so yeah you should be worried someone is after you when they knock like that at 430PM.
…ok?
I just said it’s disconcerting. I didn’t say it means that Jack the Ripper is hanging out on your porch. If it’s not a cop then maybe it’s a scammer, or a crazy, or maybe it’s the lady from down the hall who was actually getting beaten by her husband trying to run away.
It doesn’t really matter, other than being unsettling when someone beats on your door and then you look out and don’t see anyone.
quote:
why does that matter? It's 430PM.
Because he fricking hid right after knocking, for starters.
quote:
He went to the right apartment.
He went to the apartment number she told him. That doesn’t mean he went to the right apartment. Again, the lady was clearly unsure of the apartment number. First she says she doesn’t know. Then she says “1401.” Then she says “it’s on this side” (the side where she was standing). Cop goes up and starts walking that way, but 1401 is the opposite way so he turns around.
My initial reaction was not to blame the cop for that. However, it seems like he was treating it as a fairly hostile scenario considering he was taking cover after knocking. So yes, he could have gone back down to verify that the lady gave him the right apartment number.
quote:
Opening the door at 430PM to a guy announcing to you he's a cop, and then standing there with the gun clearly in your hand isn't smart.
I don’t disagree. However, the period between the cop knocking and the first time the cop says anything is much longer than the period between the cop announcing himself and the resident opening the door. As I’ve said before, I suspect that the resident had gone to the door, didn’t see anyone, and picked up the pistol.. but then opened the door (without putting the pistol down) when the cop actually announced himself. I find it highly unlikely that he picked the pistol up after the cop announced himself, given the timing.
Should he have put it away before opening up? Yes. Can I understand how he might have frozen up once he finally started hearing “sherrif’s office, open the door!”? Yes.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:46 am to Obtuse1
it is a bad shoot for one simple reason
when the deputy saw the gun in his right hand it was pointed down and the Airman had his left hand up in a “dont shoot manner.”
At this point the deputy should have swung back out of the doorway to cover and said drop the gun multiple times
He did not, he stayed square in the door frame, drew his weapon and fired and then said drop the gun after he shot him.
this s a fairly simple case of recognition, evaluation, reaction going wrong.
The deputy’s weapon drawing and firing training is better than his verbal command training and the Airman died because of it.
bad shoot
when the deputy saw the gun in his right hand it was pointed down and the Airman had his left hand up in a “dont shoot manner.”
At this point the deputy should have swung back out of the doorway to cover and said drop the gun multiple times
He did not, he stayed square in the door frame, drew his weapon and fired and then said drop the gun after he shot him.
this s a fairly simple case of recognition, evaluation, reaction going wrong.
The deputy’s weapon drawing and firing training is better than his verbal command training and the Airman died because of it.
bad shoot
This post was edited on 5/10/24 at 9:48 am
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:51 am to supatigah
terrible shoot. nothing that approaches a good shoot. That cop deserves everything he gets.
And more importantly, he will spend the rest of his life with the blood of an innocent service member on his hands.
And more importantly, he will spend the rest of his life with the blood of an innocent service member on his hands.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:57 am to lostinbr
quote:
I suspect that the resident had gone to the door, didn’t see anyone, and picked up the pistol.
That's not a normal thing for anyone to do at 430PM.
I'm sorry but I just don't understand this and don't live in a world where i would ever feel it's necessary to answer the door at 430PM with a gun. I completely understand it's legal to do so, but it just doens't make any sense whatsoever. You can make your "he hid after knocking" excuse all you want.
You konw what normal people do in that instance? They open the door out of curiousity, or they simply go back to what they were doing and ignore it.
If you're first instinct at 430PM after someone knocks on your door is to get a gun, then i feel sorry for the life you live in where you deem that is necessary.
quote:
but then opened the door (without putting the pistol down) when the cop actually announced himself. I find it highly unlikely that he picked the pistol up after the cop announced himself, given the timing.
and the smart thing to do once you hear it's the police, after they've said that twice, and you heard it, is to put the gun down, not answer like a fricking idiot opening the door and standing there with it in your hand.
but let's use the excuse some murderer was out to get him and disguising himself as the police at 430PM, b/c that's a normal thing for a normal person to think at that time.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 10:11 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
If you're first instinct at 430PM after someone knocks on your door is to get a gun, then i feel sorry for the life you live in where you deem that is necessary.
Well I guess you don’t have to feel sorry for him anymore, so there’s that.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 10:39 am to supatigah
reply to supatigah post
I wonder what the cop was told on his way to the call. We know its a domestic violence call, which can be one of the most dangerous. Why didn't he wait for back up? Was he told someone was being harmed and needed immediate help? Did the lady in the video give him the correct apartment number?
Why did someone call 911 in the first place? Were they actually concerned for someone inside the apartment, or were they just trying to frick with the dude?
To me, there are too many questions to start drawing conclusions.
I wonder what the cop was told on his way to the call. We know its a domestic violence call, which can be one of the most dangerous. Why didn't he wait for back up? Was he told someone was being harmed and needed immediate help? Did the lady in the video give him the correct apartment number?
Why did someone call 911 in the first place? Were they actually concerned for someone inside the apartment, or were they just trying to frick with the dude?
To me, there are too many questions to start drawing conclusions.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 10:57 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
but let's use the excuse some murderer was out to get him and disguising himself as the police at 430PM, b/c that's a normal thing for a normal person to think at that time.
I guess my thing is just, why do you need to come up with an excuse for why the murdered guy got murdered??
A government agent, from the same department as the acorn fiasco executed a guy in his own house who wasn’t breaking any laws. Stupid or not, stupid is not grounds for being killed.
If this guy had got shot by an FBI, DEA, or ATF agent we’d all be incensed at the government attacking our rights. But local cops get a pass for some reason.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:00 am to jcaz
quote:
Dumbass cops cannot even verify an address?
we've learned nothing from the Breonna Taylor incident
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:04 am to Nature Boy
quote:
If Crump is the attorney, then you should probably wait until all the facts come out before passing judgmen
bingo
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:18 am to TeddyPadillac
I don't get your point in this thread. You don't think I should be able to answer my own door with a firearm without being worried about being killed? If you can be killed for exercising your rights, you don't have rights.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:21 am to Lightbringer1
quote:
This board really cracks me up sometimes. We are all for a full defense of our second amendment rights. We are all for being able to open carry at all times. We are all for fighting ANYONE who tries to so much as wink in the direction of making gun ownership harder. Except here is a dude, in his own house, breaking no laws, exercising his right to own and carry a gun. Who was not making any threats towards the officer and did not have the gun aimed at the officer And SOME of you are perfectly happy to say HE is the one who fricked up. I’m sorry but I like carrying. I have two Glock 19s. One bedside, and one in my truck. I’d prefer not to get shot just cause some dipshit cop is jumpy.
You are exactly correct. The victim in this case has a right to own a gun. He has a right to carry a gun. He has a right to protect his home.
He was NOT POINTING the gun at the officer or apparently acting in any threatening way…he merely was possessing a gun and the cop got jumpy and shot him for it.
I have relatives who were police officers and I understand the idea that they have the right to “go home after their shift”, but there is also a knowledge that as part of their job they do put themselves in harms way. The cop should have drawn his weapon while ordering the guy to drop the gun. He didn’t. He drew and fired. That’s a crime.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:23 am to Lightbringer1
quote:
This board really cracks me up sometimes. We are all for a full defense of our second amendment rights. We are all for being able to open carry at all times. We are all for fighting ANYONE who tries to so much as wink in the direction of making gun ownership harder.
Except here is a dude, in his own house, breaking no laws, exercising his right to own and carry a gun. Who was not making any threats towards the officer and did not have the gun aimed at the officer And SOME of you are perfectly happy to say HE is the one who fricked up.
I’m sorry but I like carrying. I have two Glock 19s. One bedside, and one in my truck. I’d prefer not to get shot just cause some dipshit cop is jumpy.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:26 am to lsusa
quote:
I have relatives who were police officers and I understand the idea that they have the right to “go home after their shift”
He has a right to go home at the end of his shift. And now he has the right to a trial for the laws he broke and the life he wrongly took. He should be charged criminally if he hasn’t been already.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:35 am to lsusa
quote:
The cop should have drawn his weapon while ordering the guy to drop the gun. He didn’t. He drew and fired. That’s a crime.
I 100% agree.
It's difficult for some of you to understand that i feel this way as well.
I have yet to say what the cop did was right. B/c he 100% should have handled the situation better.
That can be true, and we can still say what the dead guy dead was dumb. You can preach it's legal all you want, it was still dumb, and no you shouldn't be killed for being dumb, but actions have consequences, even legal actions that are stupid.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:38 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
It’s stupid what he did.
Why is that so hard to comprehend?
I love it when people claim to be pro 2A then crucify people that try to use it.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:43 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
That can be true, and we can still say what the dead guy dead was dumb.
...but we shouldn't, because it doesn't matter to the outcome.
I'd also disagree with you if what's being reported is accurate. There's nothing inherently dumb about answering your own door with a firearm.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 11:44 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
I don't get your point in this thread. You don't think I should be able to answer my own door with a firearm without being worried about being killed? If you can be killed for exercising your rights, you don't have rights.
Eh, I'm not sure anyone is arguing that. Its your right to answer the door with a gun, I agree.
The cop violated his rights. I'm sure the cop will be fired. The cop probably deserves a limited amount of jail time. But how much? I mean 12 months? More than a year seems ridiculous this wasn't a violent criminal and likely won't happen again.
Given all of that, if more people answered the door with a gun like that then more people would get shot.
If someone knocks on my door that hard, I'm screaming back to figure out who it is or I'm answering with my gun drawn if I'm that worried. Most likely, I'm not opening the door. That's just plain stupid to answer the door with a gun.
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