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re: Nazi Germany surrendered to the Allies on this day 79 years ago...
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:37 am to Boodis Man
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:37 am to Boodis Man
quote:
Pretty pathetic that the US tries to act like they defeated the nazis…it was the ussr that put in 90% of the work
Oh this about to turn into a lend lease thread.
Do the Soviets win without all the material and equipment we gave to them?
0
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:39 am to Blutarsky
quote:
Imagine if Hitler didn’t start a war on two fronts before completely conquering Europe/England.
Things would have gone very differently.
Was watching a documentary on Netflix last night about it... Hitler's plan was always based around eventually attacking the Soviets
The historians said he actually had a bit of respect for England and the British Empire and said the only person who could order an attack on London was Hitler himself b/c he didn't want the city bombed unless he felt it was necessary
He was hoping the British people would force Churchill to sue for peace after the fall of France and the fighting in Western Europe would already essentially be over
Unfortunately for him... that didn't happen and the Luftwaffe commander wanted to just bomb them into submission
That was going fine (not great but well enough) until a wayward pilot missed his target and bombed the East End of London
That gave Churchill the idea to do an attack on Berlin... which got Hitler distracted and started the Blitz on London... taking his eyes off the British military targets (the RAF's 10 group on the English SE coast was about to have to retreat further inland b/c they were so decimated)
The RAF was able to rebuild its infrastructure since the bombers were attacking elsewhere and hold the line in the Battle of Britain
Another thing the Luftwaffe commander should've learned from the Battle of Britain... don't have a yes-man as your intel chief... have someone who knows what's going on and tells the truth of what's actually happening
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:45 am to rt3
go watch the netflix cold war series and the implication of the atomic bomb that led to the cold war when drawing up the agreement to divide land after World War II
Very interesting how USA left Russia out of those conversations
Very interesting how USA left Russia out of those conversations
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:49 am to nicholastiger
quote:
go watch the netflix cold war series and the implication of the atomic bomb that led to the cold war when drawing up the agreement to divide land after World War II
Very interesting how USA left Russia out of those conversations
To be fair... it's hard to take an "ally" seriously when...
A) you go into it knowing your 2 ideologies are so far apart the alliance is tenuous at best
B) the ally already had a pact with the main opponent you're fighting which included the 2 taking over another sovereign country together
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:50 am to Commandeaux
quote:
The US dragged their arse for two years while the ussr suffered major casualties all with the "threat" of Japan attacking from the East.
i think this was intentional since we didnt really trust the commies either. We let them beat each other up and soften the Germans up.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:54 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
i think this was intentional since we didnt really trust the commies either. We let them beat each other up and soften the Germans up.
Not to mention the Polish uprising in Warsaw as the Germans were retreating
The Soviets were ready to enter Warsaw but decided to hold back and let the Germans destroy the uprising... which was basically all loyal to the previous government which was more democratic in nature
That way the Soviets could come in and set up their own communist puppet government in Poland once they liberated Warsaw from the Germans
Posted on 5/8/24 at 11:35 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 5/8/24 at 11:35 am to nicholastiger
quote:
go watch the netflix cold war series and the implication of the atomic bomb that led to the cold war when drawing up the agreement to divide land after World War II Very interesting how USA left Russia out of those conversations
The Cold War come because the Russians came to conquer, and set up shop on what became the iron curtain.
The atomic bomb didn’t start the Cold War.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 11:59 am to RollTide1987
In Normandy currently doing the D-Day tours. Villages in the area were having ceremonies today for the occasion. Truly moving being here.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:01 pm to jbird7
You lucky dawg! Take it all in.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:03 pm to RollTide1987
Real Shooters
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:06 pm to nicholastiger
quote:
go watch the netflix cold war series and the implication of the atomic bomb that led to the cold war when drawing up the agreement to divide land after World War II
Very interesting how USA left Russia out of those conversations
USSR already had their opportunity to discuss how to divide Europe with a Western power.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:10 pm to Mstate
quote:
While I hate the communists and generally agree with your post a lot of us probably wouldn’t be here today had we gone to war with the soviets
Nope. Had things stayed the same the Soviets would have been beaten.
However, chew on this: We all know that it was the invading of Poland that forced the Allies hand. Wasn't the annexations. We need to remember that Stalin was in full annexation mode, too. Poland would have been invaded by the soviets anyway.
And that's where it gets a bit interesting. Instead of Germany being seen as aggressors, we have to remember there was equal propaganda against the soviets and Hitler would have used this to align with France and Britain - which allows the Germans to push eastward using a humanitarian front against the soviets while the allies help and provide cover.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:15 pm to Fun Bunch
If you look what's happened to Western society since the end of WW2, we didn't win anything, we lost.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:22 pm to rt3
quote:
Not to mention the Polish uprising in Warsaw as the Germans were retreating
The Soviets were ready to enter Warsaw but decided to hold back and let the Germans destroy the uprising... which was basically all loyal to the previous government which was more democratic in nature
I dislike the Soviets, but they were overextended, out of armor, and had just been defeated by German forces. Stalin have may have vetoed intervening for political reasons, its fully possible, but they probably weren't in any condition to do anything about the uprising either.
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:22 pm to Boodis Man
quote:
Pretty pathetic that the US tries to act like they defeated the nazis…it was the ussr that put in 90% of the work
The Soviet Union definitely put in A LOT of work to defeat Nazi Germany in the Second World War. Anyone can rightfully claim that they put in the lion's share amongst the world powers who fought against Hitler and thugs. However, it's silly to act like the United States wasn't an indispensable player in the fall of the Third Reich. For instance, Lend-Lease played a HUGE part in the Soviet's triumph over the Wehrmacht in both 1941-42 and 1942-43. Does the Red Army still emerge triumphant in both German offensives? Probably. However, they likely lack the logistical and material strength to hit back with such major counter-blows as they did without American support.
And if Stalin and the Soviets didn't need the Allies to defeat the Germans, I highly doubt they would have been begging us to open up a second front in Europe ASAP for the better part of two years. He downright refused to launch an offensive into the heart of eastern Europe in the summer of 1944 unless we invaded France. It also must be said that the threat of Allied invasion in France, combined with our steady advance up the Italian peninsula, kept divisions that could have been sent to the Eastern Front to fight the Red Army tied down in those threatened areas.
To say the Soviet Union was 90% responsible for the victory over Nazi Germany is pure revisionist history.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:24 pm to RollTide1987
If this happened today youd have 15% of the population protesting on college campuses that we were too mean to the germans.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:27 pm to Commandeaux
quote:
Commandeaux
Hooray, they Jews won
Break that down for us if you will
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:32 pm to RollTide1987
We wouldn't be dealing with a lot of the BS we are dealing with today if we had taken out the Soviets
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:39 pm to Limitlesstigers
No one was taking out the Soviets especially when you were fighting a Pacific battle
Even if you did, whatever remained would have been just as nasty
Even if you did, whatever remained would have been just as nasty
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