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re: Offseason Moves
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:27 am to BigPerm30
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:27 am to BigPerm30
I don’t hate CJ one bit. I hate his contract. Still a very valuable player but not $32 million worth anymore. His game is aging well though because he is a pro’s pro and takes care of his body. His presence is needed with Zion becoming close with him. I just wish there were a way to get that contract down to $25 mil per year.
1
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:31 am to LSUPilot07
Good thing his contract is declining each year.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:34 am to teke184
quote:
I don’t think we need a 2nd “star”, because I see Trey becoming that
I really don’t see this happening. Trey does not have the creation necessary to be the number two option on a team. I see him more as a high level role player.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:38 am to Fun Bunch
If we see CJ as the point, that works.
Kind of depends on how much of a defensive liability he is, which is likely lessened at point compared to the 2.
Kind of depends on how much of a defensive liability he is, which is likely lessened at point compared to the 2.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:53 am to teke184
quote:
I don’t think we need a 2nd “star”, because I see Trey becoming that, but I see us needing pieces that fit better to work better with Zion on the court and function at all when he is unavailable.
I don't understand how someone can watch the playoffs right now and see what those stars are doing and have done, and think Trey can do that.
Trey is a really good player, but he's not going to morph into a star all of a sudden that can take his man one on one and score on him from all 3 levels.
Zion making mid range shots is a huge step. If he can't continue that progression, then it's even more imperative that we find someone who can hit that shot under pressure to replace BI. You can hate the mid range game all you want, but that's the shot that you are seeing the stars take late in games. SGA, Brunson, Luka, Kyrie, Murray, ANT, Maxey have all hit big shots from the mid range late in games in the playoffs. You can't just bull doze into the lane with a minute left and expect a foul to get called (unless you're the Knicks or Lakers).
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:55 am to TeddyPadillac
I am very high on Trey. I don't think he'll ever be a No. 2.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:02 am to ghost2most
No. He won't.
But that doesn't mean he can't be a critical player on a championship team.
One thing that stood out to me in the playoffs with Trey was his defense on SGA. He was able to take the contact and stay with him and he blocked him a few times. I was extremely impressed with that. I think Trey's gotten more involved with rebounding this year as well.
He's an important piece to our championship aspirations, just not as the #2 guy.
But that doesn't mean he can't be a critical player on a championship team.
One thing that stood out to me in the playoffs with Trey was his defense on SGA. He was able to take the contact and stay with him and he blocked him a few times. I was extremely impressed with that. I think Trey's gotten more involved with rebounding this year as well.
He's an important piece to our championship aspirations, just not as the #2 guy.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:39 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
No. He won't. But that doesn't mean he can't be a critical player on a championship team.
I agree somewhat. I think a lot of it will depend on his dribble/creation. His dribble is awkward right now and even his floaters/layups seem forced. If he can get the minutes to fine tune that I can see him getting pretty good; if not then I agree with your assessment. One thing we learned from Trey hes a high IQ player and can pick up things quickly.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 11:48 am to TeddyPadillac
Agreed, but I think he can be better than MPJ.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:37 pm to Tellem
quote:We're an 11 seed at best and not even good enough for the play in without CJ this season, but go off.
1. Trade CJ
2. CJ requests trade
3. CJ retires
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:43 pm to higgsBoson
quote:Klay Thompson did do just this, but obviously it helps having Steph alongside to be able to do it.
Trey does not have the creation necessary to be the number two option on a team. I see him more as a high level role player.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 12:50 pm to shel311
quote:
We're an 11 seed at best and not even good enough for the play in without CJ this season, but go off.
CJ had a solid regular season but I don’t think the question is what are we without CJ? Its more like can we upgrade from CJ especially in regards to what we’re paying him and the certain defincies he has? If we can- thats great and if we can’t and he moves to a bench role and is traded later thats fine as well.
I think its a valid argument to ask that as great as CJ was scoring/shooting how much did his lack of on ball creation and bad defense hurt us?
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 5/8/24 at 1:06 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:I certainly agree, but I was just replying to the absurdity of the poster stating we'd be better if he just flatly was not on the team at all, just disappeared entirely.
CJ had a solid regular season but I don’t think the question is what are we without CJ? Its more like can we upgrade from CJ especially in regards to what we’re paying him and the certain defincies he has? If we can- thats great and if we can’t and he moves to a bench role and is traded later thats fine as well.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 3:22 pm to shel311
CJ is a flat out awful defender, I could justify the argument. You better have 4 damn good defenders around him if you’re going to attempt to mask how much he gets hunted/abused. And when his shot is off (the whole playoffs) he’s just a totally negative player that contributes nothing. CJ was a good vet for us and is probably responsible for Zion’s turnaround but he’s making a ridiculous amount of money to be our 3rd or 4th best player
Posted on 5/8/24 at 3:38 pm to spaghettioeauxs
quote:
And when his shot is off (the whole playoffs)
His shot was really off for only one game
Other than game 3 he shot 56%, 43% and 41% from the field
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 3:39 pm
Posted on 5/8/24 at 3:55 pm to spaghettioeauxs
quote:That the team would be better without CJ and no replacement/trade? You really can't justify that argument.
CJ is a flat out awful defender, I could justify the argument.
The team you just described can't score, would be dead last in 3pt attempts. We would be lucky to have made the play in if CJ played 0 games this season.
You don't lose the best 3pt shooter in the NBA and stay just as good as you were.
quote:We had 1 good defender around him and finished with the 6th best defense in the NBA.
You better have 4 damn good defenders around him if you’re going to attempt to mask how much he gets hunted/abused
Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:23 pm to spaghettioeauxs
quote:
CJ is a flat out awful defender, I could justify it
The league average defensive rating for a player in 2023-2024: 116.1 CJ: 114.5
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:37 pm to whatiknowsofar
It only lookes awful because our offense was flat out worst than our defense in the playoffs. Averaging 87 points a game in the playoffs is flat out an embarrassment. Even with CJ, the team only gave up an average of 105ppg considering OKC was a top 3 scoring team in the league. We averaged 115ppg in the regular season for reference.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:38 pm to whatiknowsofar
It doesn’t help that he recently got little boyed by the like of Josh Giddey in the playoffs. Recency bias is probably stronger than it should be, but in the playoffs, I think it’s fair to wonder if CJ can be a positive player on either side of the ball for us. He’s been horrid as our number 2. Maybe as a number 3 he’d be better, but that never seems to happen with this Zion, Brandon, CJ core.
I’d explore trade markets for all 3 of them tbh. Even though I did love what Zion was doing for a couple of months this season. For instance, what harm does it do to call Houston up and see if Sengun is available? If Zion is what it takes to get that done, you probably should do it instead of hoping Zion’s body will finally hold up long enough for the playoffs, as he ages.
I really wouldn’t be against a hard reset where we fire Griff, Willie, and trade our entire “big 3”. Because the only way we can win a championship at the moment is if Zion stays healthy for 100 games. If we keep him, we are rolling the dice that it can happen 1-2 times over the next 5 seasons, before his game completely deteriorates (d rose style) bc it’s 98% based on pure athleticism.
I’d explore trade markets for all 3 of them tbh. Even though I did love what Zion was doing for a couple of months this season. For instance, what harm does it do to call Houston up and see if Sengun is available? If Zion is what it takes to get that done, you probably should do it instead of hoping Zion’s body will finally hold up long enough for the playoffs, as he ages.
I really wouldn’t be against a hard reset where we fire Griff, Willie, and trade our entire “big 3”. Because the only way we can win a championship at the moment is if Zion stays healthy for 100 games. If we keep him, we are rolling the dice that it can happen 1-2 times over the next 5 seasons, before his game completely deteriorates (d rose style) bc it’s 98% based on pure athleticism.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:39 pm to whatiknowsofar
sure bud, and we're better offensively when Zion is on the bench as opposed to on the court, which is also what some stat says, and our defense is just as good without Herb as it is with Herb, b/c some stat says that as well.
and no i'm not making that up.
Acting like CJ is an ok defender b/c of his DRtg is just silly. Sometimes stats don't really show a true representation of what they are trying to show.
His DRtg in the playoffs was even better at 113.5
I guess we should nominate him for one of the all nba defensive teams.
and no i'm not making that up.
Acting like CJ is an ok defender b/c of his DRtg is just silly. Sometimes stats don't really show a true representation of what they are trying to show.
His DRtg in the playoffs was even better at 113.5
I guess we should nominate him for one of the all nba defensive teams.
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