re: Pelicans are not expected to offer BI extension this offseason, moving in new direction

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And I think Allen has clearly jumped ahead of BI in value at this point.

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Man, some here really overvalue Allen. I am not sure he is more valuable than Herb.

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They couldn't get the right deal that worked for them, which is very different from they couldn't get anything.

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You're reading that as they got good offers, they just wanted more.
The reality is, they got shite offers.
Deangelo Russel and a future first
Fournier, Grimes and a future first.
Dinwiddie and a future first.

The most anyone was offering them was one first round pick. And they couldn't accept that b/c they gave up more than that to get him.
When multiple teams offer around the same shite sandwich, then that's about the worth of that guy. It's not going to drastically change just b/c of the next 20 games.


That's what his value was at that time. It was and still is 2 future firsts.
Now imagine we made BI availalbe at the deadline. What do you think the offer from the Nets would have been? Dinwiddie and a first? NO. It would have be Cam Johnson, Claxton and 3 firsts, and then more teams would have entered into a bidding war for him.


I dont disagree he has hurt his trade value over the last 15 games of the season, but he's still a much more valuable player than Murray.
BI's value didn't go from a good young player and 3-4 firsts to expiring contracts and 2 lottery protected firsts just b/c of the last 15 games.

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We have a top 5 defender in the league that shoots 40% from 3

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And Jarrett Allen is a good defensive big who averaged 17 and 11 on 63% from the field with a 66% TS%, and is a 1x All Star.

I'd guraantee if you polled non Pels and non Cavs fans or the Zach Lowes of the world, none would say Herb has more trade value than Allen.

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What Allen does is done by guys making less than half of what he does.

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No, just no.

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All y'all do is bitch about wanting to shoot more 3's. Inserting Jarrett Allen into the starting lineup will make it even more difficult to shoot more 3's

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Because the likelihood of getting a big who can hit a 3 and be a starter playing 28+ minutes is slim, but that doesn't mean you should just punt on the position and be shitty at it just because you can't get a big who can shoot the 3. I don't follow your logic here.

This goes back to the discussion we were having last week, every time we discuss a trade, and someone says they like it or would do it, that does not mean it's the top option and that poster's #1 favorite trade. It's just discussing that particular deal at the moment.

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Is he?

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but oft injured.

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Since Herb joined the NBA 3 seasons ago, Herb has played 220 games to Allen's 201.

6 games on average per season difference, not really much there.

Allen has also played more games in each of the past 2 seasons than Herb.

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Herb is elite defender, stable health, and now added corner 3 to his game.

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Herb certainly is all those things. Allen is also, as I mentioned, 17 and 11 on 63% from the field and a good defender.

I think that's a dumb move for Detroit, and an even dumber move for us.
They should be still buidling through the draft.

I have no interest in any pick in this draft in a trade of BI.
We have assets to attach to BI to go get a better player. We should be big game hunting, not doing some sort of soft rebuild.

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I have no interest in any pick in this draft in a trade of BI. We have assets to attach to BI to go get a better player. We should be big game hunting, not doing some sort of soft rebuild.

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TBH, I’m not sure we need a better player near as much as a better fit. BI and Zion’s game don’t gel.

Problem becomes figuring out who would be a better fit without too much of a downgrade in ability.

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Who the hell is Jovic? You mean topic?

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Yeah, him

To many Nikola’s coming in to the league

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And Jarrett Allen is a good defensive big who averaged 17 and 11 on 63% from the field with a 66% TS%, and is a 1x All Star.

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I"m not saying he isn't good, or that i wouldn't want him.
We have too many other assets to give up if we want him, and there are other 5's in the league we can get that can fit our needs for less.

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I'd guraantee if you polled non Pels and non Cavs fans or the Zach Lowes of the world, none would say Herb has more trade value than Allen.

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If there was a way to prove this, i'd say go ahead and do that b/c i don't believe that.
Herb is not Matisse Thybule. He can shoot. and he hits his free throws, and he can finish at the rim. He is literally a player every team in the league would love to have.

Seriously, if you add Herb to any team right now, which one doesn't start him? Celtics and who else? Literally every other team would move someone to the bench to start Herb and give him 30+ minutes a game.
Give me a list of guys who shoot 40% from 3, are all nba perimeter defenders, and will make under $15M/yr for the next 3 years. You want to bring up BI's future contract as a deterrent, then don't just piss away the fact that Herb has 3/$42M left on his deal. That's a huge advantage Herb has in his favor.




Here's the list of guys who play the 5 who had a better defensive FG% than Jarrett Allen this year.

Zubac
Kessler
Gobert
Porzingis
Chet
Hartenstein
Isaac
Wemby
Brook Lopez
AD
Claxton
Goga
Gafford
Capela


Day'Ron Sharpe was at 57.5% compared to Jarrett Allen's 55.9%
Trace jackson David, Santi Aldama, Isaiah Jackson and Jalen Smith were all in that same % or better than Sharpe.

One of those guys on that list we can get for basically nothing, but sure, lets give up Herb b/c Jarrett Allen is "Herb much better" than Claxton.



Again, Allen is a really good center, and i love his hustle. I'd love to have him, but he does not hold more value than a 40% 3 point shooter who's one of the best defenders in the league. It's astonishing to me that all of you who want us to throw up as many 3's as possible can think Allen is more valuable than Herb.

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It's not b/c i think the draft is bad, it's b/c we have 3 years to prove to Zion we can get to the summit or he's requesting a trade. trading BI for role players and a draft pick isn't going to help with that imo.

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At this point I think surrounding Zion with good shooting players to open everything up for him is the best moves we can make.

Say we do the flip of Herb for Murray, you can have a closing 5 of Murray, CJ, Trey, Zion, Reid. That’s 4 40% C&S shooters surrounding Zion that NOBODY can leave open, forcing teams to have to play Z 1 on 1 otherwise they would get decimated from 3. We can do moves to get better now without necessarily getting back a better player than Ingram.

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Explain to me why nobody better than BI is available to us?

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Currently there just is nobody better that’s available to anyone. Paul George would be about the best option right now, but if he were to leave LA and come to us in a S&T we could definitely make that S&T for leas cost than BI.