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Started By
Message
re: Albert Breer of SI: How the Falcons, Vikings and Broncos Got Their QBs.....
Posted on 4/30/24 at 7:37 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
Posted on 4/30/24 at 7:37 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:It's not a mob mentality. I'm a Kentucky/Bengals fan. I have no horse in the race from any angle. It was a stupid fricking pick in light of the Cousins contract. Plain and simple. Just own it.
It's turned into a mob mentality.
1
Posted on 4/30/24 at 7:48 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Where Denver and Minnesota let pricey veteran quarterbacks go in March, the Falcons paid a king’s ransom to bring one in—lavishing a four-year, $180 million deal ($100 million guaranteed) on Kirk Cousins
quote:
We’re all products of our own history, and Fontenot’s included an 18-year run in the Saints’ personnel department. Toward the end of that time, in 2017, he witnessed New Orleans getting a quarterback swiped from right underneath its feet. Picking 11th that year, Payton and GM Mickey Loomis had a huge grade on Texas Tech’s Patrick Mahomes. They tried to keep it quiet, and they thought they’d succeeded, but they hadn’t done quite enough.
See there is the big difference. Brees wasn't on a 4 year deal where he was guaranteed 100 million at the time either.
Let's say Cousins plays real well do the Falcons pick up Pennix on the 5th year option? They may as well burn more money and stick to their guns.
Let's say Cousins sucks arse or gets hurt and Pennix has to come in sooner than expected. Even if Pennix comes in and plays well, the Falcons have lit 100 million dollars on fire.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 7:51 pm to LooseCannon22282
quote:
See there is the big difference. Brees wasn't on a 4 year deal where he was guaranteed 100 million at the time either. Let's say Cousins plays real well do the Falcons pick up Pennix on the 5th year option? They may as well burn more money and stick to their guns. Let's say Cousins sucks arse or gets hurt and Pennix has to come in sooner than expected. Even if Pennix comes in and plays well, the Falcons have lit 100 million dollars on fire.
If cousins had a 2 year deal this pick would be fine. Maybe even great. But it’s a 4 year deal with 3 being essentially guaranteed.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 8:27 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
If cousins had a 2 year deal this pick would be fine. Maybe even great. But it’s a 4-year deal with 3 being essentially guaranteed.
Right!
it's like I said in another thread, if you wanted Pennix so bad you made him a Top 10 pick why the frick do you spend 100 million guaranteed on a QB on the wrong side of 30 (will be once season starts).
there is no sunset ending here. If there is then someone show a fricking path.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:04 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
If cousins had a 2 year deal this pick would be fine. Maybe even great. But it’s a 4 year deal with 3 being essentially guaranteed.
It's essentially a two-year deal w/an option for a 3rd.
The 4th year is a dummy year to help with the cap number.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:05 pm to UKWildcats
That's your opinion.
It's a mob mentality.
It's a mob mentality.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:09 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Going for it 4th and less than 5 every time is “unconventional”. Sometimes doing something unexpected is just stupid. This is one of those cases. It’s a sport with a 53 man roster and a salary cap. It’s the one position where you can’t have 2 players, it doesn’t work and not because the “mob” says so. All this bs about “hedging” or insurance is just excuses.
You guys do know that sitting QB'S used to be the norm
Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco took that thinking out the window.
The 2004 QB class, one of the best ever, Eli didn't start till November of that year once the Giants were done, Ben only started due to Tommy Maddox getting hurt, and Rivers didn't start until the end of year 2. Two are going to Canton and the other one (Rivers) is borderline.
This was the precedent for years, until 2008. (Flacco and Ryan)
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:10 pm to Broski
quote:
That's like saying investing in Enron after it collapsed was unconventional.
It was a retarded financial decision that guaranteed you won't have a cheap rookie contract as the main QB payment i.e. the method that has proven to be the best way to win a Super Bowl.
It's funny how you can never handle saying that your team made a dumb decision.
If he starts in '26 he has three years left on his rookie deal. Your math is off.
Stick to baseball and soccer.
This post was edited on 4/30/24 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:13 pm to TheRouxGuru
quote:
Why didn’t you address my comment about you being a hypocrite?
B/c I'm not.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:17 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
If he starts in '26 he has three years left on his rookie deal. Your math is off.
They would have one year of watching him play before having to decide on his 5th year option and would only get two years of true rookie contract value. So really, since a QB's first year starting is almost always a wash (even if he sits for a few years first), they would have a one year window (2027) to win a Super Bowl with Penix before he gets too expensive to keep a roster around him.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:18 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
You guys do know that sitting QB'S used to be the norm
Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco took that thinking out the window.
The rookie wage scale took that thinking out the window.
Posted on 5/1/24 at 10:34 am to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
It's essentially a two-year deal w/an option for a 3rd.
The 4th year is a dummy year to help with the cap number.
Which means there would be a big dead cap hit if move on from Cousins before 2027.
quote:
You guys do know that sitting QB'S used to be the norm
Not for 3 years
at least since the 70s maybe. Not starting Penix snap one isn’t the problem. Though he’s stated 49 games over 6 years in college. How much “sitting” does he need? quote:
Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco took that thinking out the window.
Peyton Manning and David Carr started snap one as rookies. Tim Couch started 15 games. Vince Young started 13 and played in 15 games and won ROY.
quote:
The 2004 QB class
That’s before the 2011 CBA. The contracts were different.
Warner was only with the Giants for 1 year, i don’t remember honestly but perhaps they brought him to mentor Eli? But unlike the Falcons 20 years later his deal did not destroy their cap for 3 years. Maddox was journeyman he was hot garbage i seriously doubt he starts the entire year but regardless of why Ben got his first start it shows sitting QBs is not necessary.
SD had Brees who they drafted in 2001 but had struggled. I don’t think it was the best move to take a rookie QB that early (they actually had the 1 pick but traded Eli to the Giants) my guess they were planning to move on from Brees but he played well and they won in 2004. They franchised him in 2005 and let him walk after that year. Not exactly a good model on how to handle QBs
Posted on 5/1/24 at 10:50 am to SteelerBravesDawg
Penix is a good qb, but drafting him makes no sense with their cap situation and having just expended a ton of capital on Cousins. Either Cousins balls out and Penix is a wasted draft pick that, at best, they flip for a 2nd or third rounder when a team’s starter goes down, or Cousins sucks/is injured and Penix can’t be built around because too much money is tied up in Cousins’s contract.
McCarthy seems like an obvious game manager bust to me. I don’t understand why Minnesota drafted him. They have the resources to build around a young qb, but why they chose that one is a headscratcher.
Daniels is a stud, but his reliance on his legs likely gives him a short NFL shelf life. The Redskins are notorious for not protecting their qbs and having their careers cut short by gruesome injuries. JD will probably just be another flash in the pan there.
Nix looks like a solid qb playing in a good situation on paper. If he fails there, it won’t be for any reasons outside of his control.
Williams is on the Bears. QB’s simply do not succeed there, but they also rarely succeed when they leave Chicago. He’ll be a bust, and it’s not really his fault.
Drake Maye is in a decent situation in New England, start of a new era. However, he won’t have the best weapons to throw to and will have to contend with a tough division, especially if Aaron Rodgers comes back strong. He doesn’t strike me as a world-beater, but I think he could develop into a really solid starter if he’s allowed to take his lumps and grow.
Rattler is in an ideal situation. He can sit behind Carr and grow. By the time he’s ready to potentially start, the Saints should have a significantly younger and better roster, especially on the lines. Carr is going to get punished behind the Saints young line. They should be gelled and in prime form by the time Rattler could be ready to start full time.
McCarthy seems like an obvious game manager bust to me. I don’t understand why Minnesota drafted him. They have the resources to build around a young qb, but why they chose that one is a headscratcher.
Daniels is a stud, but his reliance on his legs likely gives him a short NFL shelf life. The Redskins are notorious for not protecting their qbs and having their careers cut short by gruesome injuries. JD will probably just be another flash in the pan there.
Nix looks like a solid qb playing in a good situation on paper. If he fails there, it won’t be for any reasons outside of his control.
Williams is on the Bears. QB’s simply do not succeed there, but they also rarely succeed when they leave Chicago. He’ll be a bust, and it’s not really his fault.
Drake Maye is in a decent situation in New England, start of a new era. However, he won’t have the best weapons to throw to and will have to contend with a tough division, especially if Aaron Rodgers comes back strong. He doesn’t strike me as a world-beater, but I think he could develop into a really solid starter if he’s allowed to take his lumps and grow.
Rattler is in an ideal situation. He can sit behind Carr and grow. By the time he’s ready to potentially start, the Saints should have a significantly younger and better roster, especially on the lines. Carr is going to get punished behind the Saints young line. They should be gelled and in prime form by the time Rattler could be ready to start full time.
Posted on 5/1/24 at 10:55 am to kingbob
The Athletic piece that I referenced earlier that had McCarthy second among the first-round QB picks noted that he would have to step up in a way that he never had to in college, but that he has an unquantifiable “it” factor and is going into a very “user friendly” offensive system in Minnesota. We shall see.
Posted on 5/1/24 at 11:11 am to kingbob
quote:no rookie QB maybe besides Big Ben from the Steelers have walked into a better situation than Caleb Williams joining the bears. He has a solid O-Line, they gave him weapons with Moore, Allen, and Odzune at WR and Swift at RB. It’ll 100 % be his fault if he’s not able to succeed there, Poles had made every right move for a rookie QB to prosper.
Williams is on the Bears. QB’s simply do not succeed there, but they also rarely succeed when they leave Chicago. He’ll be a bust, and it’s not really his fault.
This post was edited on 5/1/24 at 11:13 am
Posted on 5/1/24 at 11:27 am to magildachunks
quote:
It can be well written and still be wrong.
Chicken shite can never be turned into chicken salad now matter how well it is presented.
Posted on 5/1/24 at 11:37 am to LooseCannon22282
quote:
Let's say Cousins plays real well do the Falcons pick up Pennix on the 5th year option? They may as well burn more money and stick to their guns.
I hated the pick of Penix (and still think it's dumb) but one scenario that nobody's really floated is the Patriots model of sticking with a 38 year old Cousins who's still playing great and trading Penix for draft picks down the road.
It hasn't been done in a while, but it is still an option for Atlanta to recoup the pick and more later on if Cousins looks great and plans to keep rolling.
Posted on 5/1/24 at 11:58 am to SirWinston
quote:
one scenario that nobody's really floated is the Patriots model of sticking with a 38 year old Cousins who's still playing great and trading Penix for draft picks down the road.
Just another scenario that’s not comparable. Garoppolo was the 62nd (late 2nd round) pick. The Patriots were SB contenders with an established vet, the could afford a luxury pick development QB at that point. When they eventually traded him all they got was a 2nd round pick. It is extremely unlikely the Falcons could get a first round pick if they decided to move Penix in a couple of years so they will not get close to the value of the pick they just wasted
Posted on 5/1/24 at 1:17 pm to Blutarsky
quote:
No one is trading for 37 year old Cousins.
i hate the falcons but you can't say that with any conviction after what we saw with Stafford
the penix pick didn't make sense but that doesn't mean they wont be able to trade out of cousins. the problem is if cousins is playing good enough to have trade value why would you wanna trade him away
This post was edited on 5/1/24 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 5/1/24 at 1:39 pm to H-Town Tiger
I was thinking of Matt Cassell as well as that dude with the long German name
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