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Message
re: 12 Year Old Girl with BPD
Posted on 5/1/24 at 7:16 am to wheelz007
Posted on 5/1/24 at 7:16 am to wheelz007
quote:
wheelz007
You just described my little brother. To a tee. I believe in prayer and I've told him that's the extent of my reaching out to him from now on.
We are adults, so it's different. I cannot imagine what the OP is going through with it being a 12 year old child.
I'll say this on my brother, my last 1/3 of life - I plan - will be completely about helping other people, but my own brother is not on that list anymore. The prayer of a righteous man availeth much, and hopefully I gain that status on my prayers, and my brother gets the help from God he needs, as I continue to pray for him.
He was this way his whole life, and then he had a stroke 5 years ago, and now pretends he's this way because of the stroke. Liar. Manipulative liar. I could write a book, but here's the straw that broke the camel's back: I called him about a tornado warning. He yelled at me for calling instead of texting, because blah blah blah, HE was somehow inconvenienced because I called. So I told him that was it. Praying for you. Bye.
Didn't effect him at all. I get the silent treatment again. Same as you said with your ex wife.
I appreciated your post.
As a Christian, (ETA, I'm a sorry excuse for a Christian, I easily admit it) I do have some non mainstream thoughts on salvation that I think are relevant here. If someone doesn't like that being entered into the conversation, then stop reading right now.
I'm not very educated on how/who interpreted the Bible. I should be, but I'm not. Being a preacher's kid, I'm more skeptical, not less. Were mistakes made? I'm not going to sit here and say no to that.
So I believe there are certainly categories where salvation will happen for people with mental illnesses, Downs Syndrome, or simply just not having any normal level of intelligence at all. Theological arguments can get pretty intense and in-depth. Sorry, Forrest Gump is not going to hell for not being smart enough to choose Protestant conservative or liberal, Catholic, Buddhist, etc. Neither are the Special Olympics kids
To a lesser extent, neither are people who are mentally ill. I believe it's incumbent on them to chose Christianity, but with the mental illness they deal with, will God hold them accountable for misinterpretation of scripture? Sane people can't agree on scripture. How are insane people supposed to do it?
My brother was not abused or abandoned. Instead he was born with a torturous skin ailment and breathing problems from allergies that has made his life a living hell. Anger from it. Sort of normal life, he still played high school football and ran track, etc., late late late college graduate, but the ball and chain of his health issues has been with him since the cradle.
Does that make my brother less hateful? No
This post was edited on 5/1/24 at 7:37 am
1
Posted on 5/1/24 at 7:23 am to wheelz007
quote:
My ex used to get in my face screaming (and you can see the devil in her face) ANGRY, cusssing - "I F'N HATE YOU... if I was a man I would stomp your a$$"....
"I don't need you!"
Yep. And I had 2 boys with this woman.
They cannot be trusted. With anything. You cannot trust her with your credit or debit card, her cell phone... you cannot trust their word, or anything about them.
Even now, 10-11 years later, she lives 3.5 hours away and I don't trust her, negotiate with her, and I keep conversations short and sweet.
spot on
Posted on 5/2/24 at 4:01 pm to Harry Rex Vonner
Even though I know they may believe some of the BS they spew, I still struggle to find it acceptable, in any way.
I can be told medically their wires are crossed up. Or that they have a chemical imbalance.
I can be told that spiritually they are hurting.... or that they have real legit mental health problems. Ok I get it. I can understand that.
I cannot explain how they get on their absolute best behavior, and then in less than 30 days they turn on you. And don't mind doing it....
On a Tuesday. Over something petty. Being hateful or never speaking to you again.... and then actling like they've forgotten all the mean $hit they said or did to you.
Another thing Borderline's do - triangulate.
Be carefull with this. Let me explain -
The wife comes home from work Day after day complaining about Melissa, the co-worker. Melissa is the meanest co-worker ever. You should hear the things Melissa says and does to your wife while they are at work.
Over time, you start to really dislike Melissa, and you've never met her.
But guess what? She goes to work and tells Melissa how terrible of a human being YOU are. How horrible of a husband you are. And guess what? Without seeing any of this herself or meeting you, Melissa starts to dislike you.
See where I'm going with this? If you ever meet Melissa at the company Christmas party, there might be some fireworks. Two grown arse adults fighting over her.
OR - if your wife starts flirting with another man or talking about meeting another man in front of her co-workers, they won't feel like telling you at all.
This is one of the many, many games Borderline's play.
I can be told medically their wires are crossed up. Or that they have a chemical imbalance.
I can be told that spiritually they are hurting.... or that they have real legit mental health problems. Ok I get it. I can understand that.
I cannot explain how they get on their absolute best behavior, and then in less than 30 days they turn on you. And don't mind doing it....
On a Tuesday. Over something petty. Being hateful or never speaking to you again.... and then actling like they've forgotten all the mean $hit they said or did to you.
Another thing Borderline's do - triangulate.
Be carefull with this. Let me explain -
The wife comes home from work Day after day complaining about Melissa, the co-worker. Melissa is the meanest co-worker ever. You should hear the things Melissa says and does to your wife while they are at work.
Over time, you start to really dislike Melissa, and you've never met her.
But guess what? She goes to work and tells Melissa how terrible of a human being YOU are. How horrible of a husband you are. And guess what? Without seeing any of this herself or meeting you, Melissa starts to dislike you.
See where I'm going with this? If you ever meet Melissa at the company Christmas party, there might be some fireworks. Two grown arse adults fighting over her.
OR - if your wife starts flirting with another man or talking about meeting another man in front of her co-workers, they won't feel like telling you at all.
This is one of the many, many games Borderline's play.
Posted on 5/2/24 at 4:23 pm to wheelz007
quote:
This is one of the many, many games Borderline's play
Was married to one for 20 years. Your post is hauntingly accurate to shite that happened to me
Posted on 5/2/24 at 4:28 pm to Boondock Saint
quote:
Tough situation, but I can tell you what won't work. Prayer.
Medication and serious therapy with mental health professionals is what she needs. I have a niece with bipolar disorder and it took a while to find the right mix of meds, but once they did she got much better.
Do some serious research on the best doctors and therapists in your area and spare no expense. She won't get better on her own and there is not much you can personally do.
You've given the best advice in this thread and you have an up:down ratio of 1:5. And people wonder why this state is so fricked.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall and get the reality of the situation, because in most cases when this happens and a parent "leaves it up to god", they've also left a lot of other things up to god that might have been better dealt with here in the real world.
Posted on 5/2/24 at 4:32 pm to jorconalx
I could write a book my man.
It's Brutal.
It's Brutal.
Posted on 5/2/24 at 4:33 pm to kingbob
quote:
What you need to do is get professional help. The root of bpd is a problem with emotional regulation. This is a brain problem, not a will power or personality issue. Her hormones and emotions are swinging wildly and she can’t control it any more than you can control the weather. She needs a professional to do a few important things:
1. Prescribe medication that can help keep the swings less severe. These can help to keep her from swinging from manic crazy to depressed suicidal 5 times a day.
2. Learn the fears and traumas underlying these emotions. While the emotions are irrational, they are often fed by real fears from actual childhood experiences. Exploring them and understanding them can take the power away from them and help heal wounds she didn’t even know were there. Imagine experiencing horrific pain that makes it difficult to walk, everyone telling you what a failure you are for not being able to run as fast as everyone else, only to finally go to a doctor and find out you have a tumor growing on your hip. Until she finds the root of the fear, those emotional swings will control her rather than the other way around.
3. Suicidal threats are often a manipulation technique or a cry for attention, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be taken deadly seriously. Through therapy, she can learn better ways to seek the attention and care she wants or achieve the desired outcome.
4. Being a tween is hard AF. It’s the most difficult age. It’s totally fine to be a weird kid when you’re little. As long as you’re somewhat positive, other kids will still be friends with you and play with you. When you hit 12, being weird becomes a HUGE problem. Kids start playing the popularity game and anyone the least bit outside the mainstream will be bullied unless they conform. For weird kids, especially introverted or mildly autistic ones, they will struggle because they’re not weird because they choose to. They don’t understand human behavior. They don’t know how to conform and no one is going to teach them. This can build up intense emotions of anger, self-loathing, resentment, rejection, and loneliness. A 12 year old brain often isn’t developed enough to really process all of this effectively. A professional can help them process these feelings, learn how to adapt socially without sacrificing their individuality, and channel those negative emotions into something positive.
My prayers go out to you. I was a really troubled kid at 13. I wish I had parents who took it more seriously. Maybe if I was as in-your-face about it as your daughter is, I would have gotten help for it at 13 instead of 28.
She needs to know you love her, that you’re worried about her, and that you just want to protect her, not change her.
I take it back, this is the best advice in this thread. Extremely constructive, empathetic, and actionable advice.
Posted on 5/2/24 at 5:04 pm to Odysseus32
quote:
I take it back, this is the best advice in this thread. Extremely constructive, empathetic, and actionable advice.
Maybe for Bipolar but not Borderline.
Posted on 5/2/24 at 5:04 pm to Leotiger725
quote:
was just diagnosed with BPD.
I have known bipolar people and they dont act like that. The behavior you described is textbook psychopath.
I worked with a person like this and everyone hated him. He was an ethnic person and all similar ethnic coworkers hated him as much as anybody because he had screwed them over just as badly as anyone else. He eventually got sick enough he had to quit work and nobody went to see him.
My point here is that this person acted similarly to your daughter and had zero remorse for anybody he screwed. Lying was just a means to an end.
Unfortunately I have no advice for you.
Posted on 5/2/24 at 5:42 pm to GetmorewithLes
quote:
I have known bipolar people and they dont act like that.
For fricks sake HE’S NOT SAYING SHE’S BIPOLAR
Posted on 5/3/24 at 7:34 am to tunechi
Right. This is Borderline Personality Trait Disorder.
There are similarities between Borderline and Bi-Polar. My Borderline ex-wife was misdiagnosed once as Bi-Polar.
In Borderlines, there is a strong sense/ fear of abandonment. This may be perceived or from an actual traumatic life eperience early early in life.
Professionals aren't sure if Borderline is inherited or learned behavior.
But - my ex is about as emotionally developed as a 14 yr old girl, with manic tendencies, extreme highs and lows.
Here's what you get -
+ Extreme pettiness. Lies. Lack of accountability. I mean - zero, Everything is someone else's fault. And the stuff they complain about is .... 1st grade level stuff
+ Hatred. Turning on you. The ability to sever even the most precious relationaship... on a Tuesday over - you're noteeven sure. But they can cut you off and never speak to you again. Sort of. They will come back to terrorize you later. They'll pull the sweetheart best friend routine....
+ No boundaries or respect for anyone's money. They don't care that you set a permanent rule. They'll figure out a way to break it and they don't mind showing up with no money and someone else paying
+ Horrible with money. No matter how many times they have their lights turned off, or get threatened to have a vehicle re-possessed - they can't keep it together. Someone can sit down with them and financially get them straightened out... in less than 6 months, they're in trouble again.
+ They love new relationships. It almost puts them on cloud 9.
+ The Triangle game.
+ They've been telling everyone how much of an a-hole you are. So they jump you and get a fight started right before you see family. Or while you're on your way to family thing. You get out of the car al angry and pissed. You get short with someone there... "see? I told you he was a f'n a-hole".... and you just stepped in it.
+ Manipulation
+ You aren't helping them enough. I heard this 400 million times.
+ And last and this is the hardest one - I really hope you grasp this part cause I had to learn it the hard way -
There is NO conversation you can have. No special wording. THere are no "homerun phrases" that get through. You can't write a letter... none of that.
No matter how you feel like a certain conversation went, you will be revisiting this very same issue. There is no changing their behavior.
You are not getting through. There is sooo much going on inside them that most of us cannot understand.
You may see them "on their best behavior" for a period of time, or you may have a new best friend (which is wild) but don't worry. In 90 days or less, you will see it all over again.
You can literally take a calendar and understand that this monster is comng back.
There are similarities between Borderline and Bi-Polar. My Borderline ex-wife was misdiagnosed once as Bi-Polar.
In Borderlines, there is a strong sense/ fear of abandonment. This may be perceived or from an actual traumatic life eperience early early in life.
Professionals aren't sure if Borderline is inherited or learned behavior.
But - my ex is about as emotionally developed as a 14 yr old girl, with manic tendencies, extreme highs and lows.
Here's what you get -
+ Extreme pettiness. Lies. Lack of accountability. I mean - zero, Everything is someone else's fault. And the stuff they complain about is .... 1st grade level stuff
+ Hatred. Turning on you. The ability to sever even the most precious relationaship... on a Tuesday over - you're noteeven sure. But they can cut you off and never speak to you again. Sort of. They will come back to terrorize you later. They'll pull the sweetheart best friend routine....
+ No boundaries or respect for anyone's money. They don't care that you set a permanent rule. They'll figure out a way to break it and they don't mind showing up with no money and someone else paying
+ Horrible with money. No matter how many times they have their lights turned off, or get threatened to have a vehicle re-possessed - they can't keep it together. Someone can sit down with them and financially get them straightened out... in less than 6 months, they're in trouble again.
+ They love new relationships. It almost puts them on cloud 9.
+ The Triangle game.
+ They've been telling everyone how much of an a-hole you are. So they jump you and get a fight started right before you see family. Or while you're on your way to family thing. You get out of the car al angry and pissed. You get short with someone there... "see? I told you he was a f'n a-hole".... and you just stepped in it.
+ Manipulation
+ You aren't helping them enough. I heard this 400 million times.
+ And last and this is the hardest one - I really hope you grasp this part cause I had to learn it the hard way -
There is NO conversation you can have. No special wording. THere are no "homerun phrases" that get through. You can't write a letter... none of that.
No matter how you feel like a certain conversation went, you will be revisiting this very same issue. There is no changing their behavior.
You are not getting through. There is sooo much going on inside them that most of us cannot understand.
You may see them "on their best behavior" for a period of time, or you may have a new best friend (which is wild) but don't worry. In 90 days or less, you will see it all over again.
You can literally take a calendar and understand that this monster is comng back.
Posted on 5/3/24 at 7:55 am to wheelz007
Everything you said is 100% accurate. This perfectly described my mother. It's pretty cyclical. She makes amends right before Thanksgiving so she has family to be around for the holidays. It lasts through her birthday in the spring time. Around June, she finds a reason to get pissed off or feel slighted by me and my sister, and then doesn't speak to us again until November. Like clockwork.
Her jobs come and go. She always manages to get a good-paying job and do well for a while, then she quits over some perceived slight and runs out of money, almost gets evicted, and will start a gofundme or some shite. She'll ask me and my siblings for money, no one gives her any, and then she magically lands back on her feet again with a good job. Lather, rinse, repeat.
She's in her mid-60s now, so I don't know how much longer she'll be able to swing decent jobs.
If it weren't for my son, I would have cut her off completely and walked away for good. But he loves her and enjoys spending time with her, so we visit with her sparingly when she's on one of her "good" spells. I don't leave him alone with her, though. I don't trust her enough to do that. She's very personable and outgoing and friendly and people who don't truly know her, love her and think she's great. I imagine the first time you hear one of her sad stories that she tells for sympathy, it's pretty compelling. She's a compilation of BPD mother types, but her most prevalent is 'waif.' Her dad died when she was a toddler, so I guess that's where all of this stems from.
This is hard shite for people to go though, but I appreciate hearing everyone else's experiences. Having a close family member with BPD is life changing for all involved.
Her jobs come and go. She always manages to get a good-paying job and do well for a while, then she quits over some perceived slight and runs out of money, almost gets evicted, and will start a gofundme or some shite. She'll ask me and my siblings for money, no one gives her any, and then she magically lands back on her feet again with a good job. Lather, rinse, repeat.
She's in her mid-60s now, so I don't know how much longer she'll be able to swing decent jobs.
If it weren't for my son, I would have cut her off completely and walked away for good. But he loves her and enjoys spending time with her, so we visit with her sparingly when she's on one of her "good" spells. I don't leave him alone with her, though. I don't trust her enough to do that. She's very personable and outgoing and friendly and people who don't truly know her, love her and think she's great. I imagine the first time you hear one of her sad stories that she tells for sympathy, it's pretty compelling. She's a compilation of BPD mother types, but her most prevalent is 'waif.' Her dad died when she was a toddler, so I guess that's where all of this stems from.
This is hard shite for people to go though, but I appreciate hearing everyone else's experiences. Having a close family member with BPD is life changing for all involved.
Posted on 5/3/24 at 8:22 am to wheelz007
quote:
And last and this is the hardest one - I really hope you grasp this part cause I had to learn it the hard way -
There is NO conversation you can have. No special wording. THere are no "homerun phrases" that get through. You can't write a letter... none of that.
This is the hardest truth. Any vulnerability you display when trying to break through to them will be thrown in your face during a future fight in the most hurtful way possible.
Posted on 5/3/24 at 8:41 am to Leotiger725
Read the Road less Traveled.
Find a really really good physiotherapist
Find a really really good physiotherapist
Posted on 5/3/24 at 9:01 am to Leotiger725
BPD is typically from some type of abuse. Have you addressed that? Usually that is step 1.
Posted on 5/3/24 at 9:03 am to AcadiaParishTiger
quote:
BPD is typically from some type of abuse. Have you addressed that? Usually that is step 1.
That’s not necessarily true. While some may report abuse as a trigger, not everyone who has BPD was abused. And not everyone who has been abused develops BPD.
And honestly, it’s likely not something she would talk seriously about if it happened until she is consistently in therapy and has developed a strong rapport.
Posted on 5/3/24 at 9:06 am to BluegrassBelle
Most studies show that there’s about 50% of people with BPD come from some type of abusive environment.
Someone that develops it that young, likely experienced something traumatic early in life.
Someone that develops it that young, likely experienced something traumatic early in life.
Posted on 5/3/24 at 9:07 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:
I have known bipolar people and they dont act like that. The behavior you described is textbook psychopath.
Bipolar and BPD are two different disorders. And yes, people with BPD at the intensity we’re discussing do act like that.
This is part of the DSM-5 criteria for diagnosing BPD
quote:
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by 5 (or more) of the following:
Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behaviour covered in criterion 5.
A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. Impulsivity in at least 2 areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behaviour covered in criterion 5.
Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour.
Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
Chronic feelings of emptiness. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.
Posted on 5/3/24 at 9:09 am to AcadiaParishTiger
Yep. Like I was saying earlier -
Professionals can't say for sure if Borderline is inherited or learned behavior.
Studies reveal it's case by case I think.
Professionals can't say for sure if Borderline is inherited or learned behavior.
Studies reveal it's case by case I think.
Posted on 5/3/24 at 9:10 am to Leotiger725
A 12 year-old shouldn’t be diagnosed with a personality disorder. Find a therapist with a lot of training and experience in trauma treatment. Medications are unlikely to help, especially alone. DBT could be helpful as someone else suggested, but I highly recommend getting her into a Linehan modeled program and not just individual therapy. EMDR and IFS could also help once she is stabilized. Please get that BPD label removed.
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