re: Mahomes is the GOAT

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Lol he was in the NFL for 23 years and had like 5 elite seasons at most

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Stop

He had 8 seasons with a passer rating above 100(and probably 3 or 4 more just shy of that mark) . For his career, I'd guess 4-5 dudes per year do that.

Those 8 seasons, his teams ranks in PPG

1
1
2
2
3
3
3
3

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Dude is the best QB ever and it’s not close

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lulz

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So yeah Brady was largely a game manager carried by his defense save for less than 20% of career.

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NE lead the league in scoring 4 times under brady 07, 10, 12, 14

they were second in scoring 13, 17
they were third in scoring 04, 11, 15, 16,
they were fourth in scoring 18
they were fifth in scoring 06

TB was second in scoring in 20, 21
so in 21 seasons game manager Tom Brady relying on his defense lead an offense that was in the top 5 in scoring 14 times
that is 67% of his career in the top five in scoring

game manager Tom Brady played with 800+ yard rusher 12 times in 21 seasons

he played with a 1000 yard rusher 5 times

now I realize they used RB by committe, a lot of short passing, and the TEs in place of a running game

however, brady was under 7.0 yd/att only 5 times in 21 seasons
he lead the league in y/a twice and was over 8.0 four times

Manning had a HOF WR and a HOF RB most of his time in Indy

brady’s best RB was Clock Killin’ Corey Dillon or LeGarrette Blount and his best WR was two full seasons of Randy Moss at 30 and 32. Moss was 31 in 2008 when brady was out

in 2007 moss with Brady had 98 catches for 1493 yds, 23 TDs and a robust 15.2 y/c
in 2008 moss with Cassel had 69 catches for 1008, 11 TDs and 14.6y/c
in 2009 moss with Brady had 83 catches for 1264, 13 TDs and 15.2y/c

obviously Gronk at TE was a difference maker when brady was in the last 1/2 of his career.

Dallas Clark compares somewhat to Gronk in productvity
Gronk had Career
G 143
Rec 621
Yds 9286
Y/R 15.0
TD 92

Clark had Career
G 143
Rec. 505
Yds 5665
Y/R 11.2
TD 53

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Dallas Clark compares somewhat to Gronk in productvity Gronk had Career

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Bro

Even if you want to use irrational arguments like team stats, Mahomes has 3 SBs and what? 6 straight conference title appearances?

That would put him tied for 4th with Aikman. Anyone who would rank Aikman ahead of Mahomes has had more concussions than Aikman.

Doing what he does in-season in a much more highly competitive era than the pre-Free agency Steelers and 49ers dyansties should easily put Mahomes ahead of Montana or Bradshaw.

So if we're using team stats as the lead with individual performance as the secondary variable, if Mahomes died today he'd be 2nd all time.

If we are using more rational measurements of judging individual players, it gets tricker. Brady would fall, Manning and Rodgers would shoot up.

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Mahomes is well on his way to surpassing Brady, let's be real, he's better.

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No. Maybe one day, not currently.

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Number of seasons with a passer rating index of 120+ plus (it compares your passer rating in a given season with the league wide average passer rating for that season and for index purposes that average is always 100);

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Do you have a link that shows 120 is the standard, or did you cherry pick that number?

Percentage of seasons with a Rat+ of 110 or higher:

Manning 76.4%
Brady 76.1%

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So it was 4 elite seasons, not 5. Kurt Warner had 3 in 7 seasons as a starter. So yeah Brady was largely a game manager carried by his defense save for less than 20% of career. He won a Super Bowl in only one of those 120+ seasons.

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Basically just as good as Manning using Rating+ of 110 or higher, so now what?


Also saying he was a game manager when his teams were top 3 in scoring a shite ton of times due more so to passing and not running is absurdly wrong.

come on, that is one part of a pretty long post

earlier in the thread someone said Brady’s offenses were loaded which is debatable but he never had a Harrison/James/Clark type guys around him.

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obviously Gronk at TE was a difference maker when brady was in the last 1/2 of his career.

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the dallas clark vs gronk comparison was part of manning had a HOF WR and a HOF RB with an All Pro TE

Clark statistically is about 1/2 of Gronk’s production

Tom Brady had two years of a 30+ HOF WR in Moss, two All Pro seasons out of WR Welker and a HOF TE in Gronk. RB was a revolving door in NE

right shel

I dont dispute Mahomes is right now a better QB than Brady ever was

but GOAT is a sum total of everything in a career

the biggest differentiator between what mahomes is doing versus what brady did is the totals. if mahomes continues on this trajectory he will blow Brady out of the water statistically and team success and probably be the GOAT

if mahomes never plays another game to me he is 3rd behind Brady and Montana but that is obviously debatable as well

120 is considered surefire PB, All-Pro territory. 130 is considered All-Pro, MVP level, great tier throughout history. Anything over 140 is considered an all-time elite season (think if it like a 2,000 yard rushing season equivalent for passers).

There are a couple of outliers in there that scored highly, but were due to highly efficient but extremely limited usage (Nic Foles 2013 and Purdy 2023) so I won’t say it is 100% perfect and don’t question it - I personally have some issues with the formula that is used to calculate Passer Rating in general - but it’s pretty much the best way to compare how great of a passer a quarterback was compared to his peers across the years. It doesn’t factor in what a quarterback does in the running game so guys like Mahomes, Young, Rodgers, and Jackson are not rewarded for their full impact as a player though.