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re: 2024 NASCAR Season Thread
Posted on 5/6/24 at 10:57 am to nvasil1
Posted on 5/6/24 at 10:57 am to nvasil1
quote:
Normally that difference doesn't matter, but when there is a tight stage or race finish, the high-speed camera at the true start/finish line is always used, just like in Atlanta.
So this "blurry" pixelated picture is what all of you want to hang your hat on? I'll concede that it shows the 5 car ahead. But tell me, exactly, where is the start finish line in this photo? When do we know what moment of the race this photo was taken? There is no context here except for two superimposed lines on this photo. In reality, it tells us nothing.
This post was edited on 5/6/24 at 11:02 am
6
Posted on 5/6/24 at 11:27 am to OU Guy
quote:
I will say Fox is horrible in coverage
They are so bad. It's like they just don't care anymore
Posted on 5/6/24 at 11:57 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Lonnie Utah
Larson won fair and square. That's the end of it.
You are melting b/c Hendrick won and mUh hEnDrIcK bAd. You are no better than a spoiled arse brat child who is throwing a tantrum because they aren't getting their way. Hendrick/Gibbs are just better than everyone else right now. You don't have to like it, but quit melting all over the thread about it.
You are taking away from what was a great race, let alone a historically great finish.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:01 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
It was a great finish.
I'm a little sour Larson won, but only because Hendrick and Gibbs are dominating the sport. I mean the only races that neither won were on drafting tracks, and they even won one of them.
Larson earned that fair and square. Buescher should've done more to secure the win, but credit to Larson for not backing down.
Larson now has 19 wins since taking over the 5 car. He's on another level since joining Hendrick.
I'm a little sour Larson won, but only because Hendrick and Gibbs are dominating the sport. I mean the only races that neither won were on drafting tracks, and they even won one of them.
Larson earned that fair and square. Buescher should've done more to secure the win, but credit to Larson for not backing down.
Larson now has 19 wins since taking over the 5 car. He's on another level since joining Hendrick.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:03 pm to Lonnie Utah
Here, I saved this from Reddit after Atlanta
Pockrass also did an article about the cameras:
LINK
quote:
For everyone beefing on the quality, this is not a full-frame camera like you’re familiar with. Whereas a normal camera may take a picture that’s 4032x3024 pixels, timed sporting events use a highly specialized “line-scan” camera that shoots an image that’s only 1 pixel wide at thousands of frames a second. The camera is connected to the official timing system, so as the “images” are taken, an incredibly precise time stamp is stored in the image’s metadata.
These single-pixel-wide images are then fed into a piece of scoring software that sandwiches them one after the other. The resulting image looks nothing like what you’d expect UNLESS an object crosses that single-pixel-wide capture area while in motion. (Notice how the foreground looks super weird? That’s because it’s the same 1-pixel-wide photo stacked against itself thousands of times.)
Then, in the scoring software, you move your pick line (the red line shown) to the point on the object you wish to score. This will pull the exact time from that specific single-pixel-wide image’s metadata, and boom there’s your time.
Exact same technology is used at every level of track and field, all the way up to the Olympics.
Do the images look goofy? Yes. Does that mean it’s not “good”. No. Is the technology expensive? Incredibly
Source: Did this for a living
Pockrass also did an article about the cameras:
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. LINK
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:04 pm to Lonnie Utah
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:16 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
But tell me, exactly, where is the start finish line in this photo?
quote:
There is no context here except for two superimposed lines on this photo. In reality, it tells us nothing.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:19 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
So this "blurry" pixelated picture is what all of you want to hang your hat on? I'll concede that it shows the 5 car ahead.
Its only blurry because you need your eyes checked.
And next sentence you concede (but we know you don’t really - we’ll be hearing about this from you in future weeks/months/years).
Trying to figure out why you are taking this so hard. Were you rubbing one out when Hamlin was leading with 7 to go and the caution came out? Or just argue anytime a Hendrick car wins?
This was a rare time Nascar got it right. Chris should have left Larson pinned to the top (after he gave it to him). Could have rubbed him into wall coming to flag and won. He’ll learn. Everyone has races they lose and could have won, and learn from them. To be honest he should have let him have bottom vice top. But regardless it was close and no one really knew for half a lap and that was exciting. Nascar then announced and produced the evidence.
Lets rewind a few races. Imagine Nascar announcing after review that Hamlin jumped the start. That would have been the right call too but they never did. And had even more evidence. They gifted him that win. But last night, no gifts.
Imagine the outrage had they gifted Chris the win and pics come out showing Larson clearly ahead and winning. Nascar hates Larson, they took a plate race win from him before for going over yellow line. Even though it had no impact. They under penalized Bubba when he attacked Larson on live TV. They would love to have given this race to Chris.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:21 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
So this "blurry" pixelated picture is what all of you want to hang your hat on?
It’s not about us. That’s the official high speed camera shot from NASCAR with the official scoring/timing line on it.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:34 pm to OU Guy
quote:
Its only blurry because you need your eyes checked.
The background of this photo and the track isn't blurry? I used to be a semi-pro photographer. I know a blurry photo when I see it. This photo is full of motion blur.
quote:
Trying to figure out why you are taking this so hard. Were you rubbing one out when Hamlin was leading with 7 to go and the caution came out? Or just argue anytime a Hendrick car wins?
With about 20 or 30 to go, my kid asked me who I was pulling for in this race. I told him, "The 8 because I dislike him the least of those in contention." (and I used to hate Kyle Busch.) And I've actually bought Larson gear before when he drove the 42. I just can't pull for him now because of his boss. So coming to the conclusion that I have this opinion just because I don't like Larson is not accurate.
quote:
This was a rare time Nascar got it right. Chris should have left Larson pinned to the top (after he gave it to him). Could have rubbed him into wall coming to flag and won. He’ll learn. Everyone has races they lose and could have won, and learn from them. To be honest he should have let him have bottom vice top. But regardless it was close and no one really knew for half a lap and that was exciting. Nascar then announced and produced the evidence.
Again, for the 10th time, I'm not arguing if the results are right and wrong. I'm arguing that with the system they have in place, there is no credible way for the fans to know how, and when the final photo was taken and if it accurately represents the winner. There is no way for us as fans to verify who was first or second. If the painted line on the track has no relevance to the outcome of the race, then why is it there to begin with?
quote:
Lets rewind a few races. Imagine Nascar announcing after review that Hamlin jumped the start. That would have been the right call too but they never did. And had even more evidence. They gifted him that win. But last night, no gifts.
I didn't watch that race and have no opinion on it.
quote:
Imagine the outrage had they gifted Chris the win and pics come out showing Larson clearly ahead and winning. Nascar hates Larson, they took a plate race win from him before for going over yellow line. Even though it had no impact. They under penalized Bubba when he attacked Larson on live TV. They would love to have given this race to Chris.
Had they taken the photo milliseconds earlier, the 17 would have won. Again, angles of photos and timing of the photos matter. Especially when it was as close as it was last night. With the photo Nascar released, that they supposedly used to determine the outcome, we have none of that very important information to know if they are telling us the truth or not.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:36 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
quote:
It’s not about us. That’s the official high speed camera shot from NASCAR with the official scoring/timing line on it.
Official or not, if we can't tell when and were the photo was taken, how can Nascar have any credibility in telling us that the photo represents the true outcome of the race?
Whem my kid was in elementary school, they called them "context clues" and there are none of them in this photo.
This post was edited on 5/6/24 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:48 pm to nvasil1
quote:
These single-pixel-wide images are then fed into a piece of scoring software that sandwiches them one after the other. The resulting image looks nothing like what you’d expect UNLESS an object crosses that single-pixel-wide capture area while in motion. (Notice how the foreground looks super weird? That’s because it’s the same 1-pixel-wide photo stacked against itself thousands of times.)
Then, in the scoring software, you move your pick line (the red line shown) to the point on the object you wish to score. This will pull the exact time from that specific single-pixel-wide image’s metadata, and boom there’s your time.
This exactly sums up my issue with the system. How and where is nascar focusing this camera? Because of the image(s) it produces we can't tell. Sure it's precise, but is it accurate? (and if you don't know the difference between the two, I can't help you.) Based on the images it releases, we can't tell.
This post was edited on 5/6/24 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 5/6/24 at 12:50 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
The background of this photo and the track isn't blurry? I used to be a semi-pro photographer. I know a blurry photo when I see it. This photo is full of motion blur.
Here's an explanation of a photo finish using the same technology from a stage in last year's Tour de France.
quote:
The assumption people make when looking at a photo finish is that it is a normal photo, which has distorted images. After all, the bikes themselves, other than the spokes, look pretty normal — but the riders indeed look weird! But if it were a normal photo, there would be a background, and there is not, because the film is moving with the riders, whereas the background is stationary. This means there is no actual finish line to be seen in the photo, because the finish line is stationary — the entire photo is the finish line.
LINK
Posted on 5/6/24 at 1:01 pm to nvasil1
That photo is like the Lexus version of the technology, and whatever NASCAR is using is like a Pinto 
Posted on 5/6/24 at 1:02 pm to nvasil1
quote:
Here's an explanation of a photo finish using the same technology from a stage in last year's Tour de France.
The difference is cyclist move significantly slower than race cars. Pro level cyclist in a sprit hit about 40 mph.
Another problem with the system is it assumes all the object are traveling at the same speed (or relatively close to the same speed). It's also compressing a 3 dimensional space into 2 dimensions. To under stand the problem with this, you should read the book "Flatland" by Edwin Abbott Abbott.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 1:03 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
That photo is like the Lexus version of the technology, and whatever NASCAR is using is like a Pinto
No. the nascar version is simply showing the limitations of trying to do high speed photography in a relatively dark space like a race track. I'm sure during the daytime would be better. I'm also sure there are distance issues involved at a nascar race vs the Tour.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 1:22 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
How and where is nascar focusing this camera?
According to Pockrass, two cameras are cordoned off on pit road (one sitting lower and one higher), with both focused down the lead edge of the start/finish line.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 1:24 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Another problem with the system is it assumes all the object are traveling at the same speed (or relatively close to the same speed). It's also compressing a 3 dimensional space into 2 dimensions. To under stand the problem with this, you should read the book "Flatland" by Edwin Abbott Abbott.
Were the cars not going similar speeds when going for a race win?
What is your and Edwin's suggestion if this technology is unacceptable?
Posted on 5/6/24 at 1:44 pm to MikeHoncho47
quote:
I'm a little sour Larson won, but only because Hendrick and Gibbs are dominating the sport. I mean the only races that neither won were on drafting tracks, and they even won one of them.
Larson earned that fair and square. Buescher should've done more to secure the win, but credit to Larson for not backing down.
Nuance has no place on here.
quote:
Larson now has 19 wins since taking over the 5 car. He's on another level since joining Hendrick.
Him dropping the N-bomb when he was playing that sim race and getting dropped from Ganassi was a blessing in disguise.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 1:51 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
Also goes to show the difference between Chevy or Ford. Ford would not let Tony sign him for the 14. Chevy let Hendrick sign him.
Tony was in the same boat in 22. He had Kyle Busch ready to go for the 10 car. Ford said no. Tony ends up talking Almirola out of retirement. KFB goes to Childress and wins 3 races.
Not a secret why Tony is done with Ford.
Tony was in the same boat in 22. He had Kyle Busch ready to go for the 10 car. Ford said no. Tony ends up talking Almirola out of retirement. KFB goes to Childress and wins 3 races.
Not a secret why Tony is done with Ford.
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