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Message
Don't have to "cancel" ESPN and Rivals, but you can't intelligently support their ratings.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 12/21/23 at 12:38 pm
I can't recall the last time I believed that ESPN or Rivals had any value in evaluating high school football talent. I never thought ESPN was good, and it's been over a decade since Rivals was worth a damn.
We all acknowledge that ESPN and Rivals are flat-out terrible. Rivals is the first generation of a third generation industry. Nobody is going back to a brick phone.
ESPN football recruiting was, is, and always will be terrible. Terrible recruiting evaluations is what they do. It's all they do.
I don't suggest cancelling ESPN or Rivals. I do suggest that knowledgeable posters stop using "industry" averages that include ESPN or Rivals. You are not feeding the ignorant with knowledge when the truth is tainted.
Using the industry average is a misguided attempt to offer the illusion of being unbiased. But it's an illusion only. Mixing in even a small piece of shite to something does not improve the quality of the thing. It just makes the thing shitty.
I'm looking at you Crown. The people look to you. Don't misuse your power. Free yourself from the shackles of unbiased but inaccurate rankings.
Just this once, ignore your Bama overlords.
We all acknowledge that ESPN and Rivals are flat-out terrible. Rivals is the first generation of a third generation industry. Nobody is going back to a brick phone.
ESPN football recruiting was, is, and always will be terrible. Terrible recruiting evaluations is what they do. It's all they do.
I don't suggest cancelling ESPN or Rivals. I do suggest that knowledgeable posters stop using "industry" averages that include ESPN or Rivals. You are not feeding the ignorant with knowledge when the truth is tainted.
Using the industry average is a misguided attempt to offer the illusion of being unbiased. But it's an illusion only. Mixing in even a small piece of shite to something does not improve the quality of the thing. It just makes the thing shitty.
I'm looking at you Crown. The people look to you. Don't misuse your power. Free yourself from the shackles of unbiased but inaccurate rankings.
Just this once, ignore your Bama overlords.
10
Posted on 12/21/23 at 12:44 pm to Salviati
Anyone who wants an average should just take On3 and 247’s own team or player rankings and average them. Leave Rivals and especially ESPN where they belong- on the sideline. Everyone who knows recruiting knows they are the only legitimate services at this point.
This post was edited on 12/21/23 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 12/21/23 at 12:44 pm to Salviati
Can you prove either ESPN or Rivals or any worse than ON3 and 247? Can you prove any are better or worse than the other? Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
I do agree btw.
I do agree btw.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 12:46 pm to lsufanva
ESPN consistently misses on kids and over ranks busts.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 12:48 pm to lsufanva
quote:
Can you prove either ESPN or Rivals or any worse than ON3 and 247? Can you prove any are better or worse than the other? Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. I do agree btw.
It’s numbers with Rivals. They were picked over by 247 and then again by On3 later on. They don’t have as many analysts and the best ones they had are long gone to 247 and On3. They just don’t have the bodies in the field to analyze as many players as the big two do and are surviving based on their past at this point.
ESPN is a joke. They don’t even have a real national staff of scouts and evaluators. At least Rivals tries to be a legitimate ranking service. ESPN is just there for content to put on TV.
This post was edited on 12/21/23 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:05 pm to misey94
The differences in evaluations at each of the 4 sites is an indication of how subjective they are. An industry average does not fix this variance because these are not real statistics, just different evaluator’s opinions. None of them are better than coaches, which is why offers provide better expectations of how recruits will pan out. The fact that some players on one service are ranked in the top 100 and not even in the top 300 on other sites just proves how unreliable these evaluations are.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:13 pm to lsufanva
quote:Dam you for asking a legitimate question, but to which an affirmative answer would be unsupportable.
Can you prove either ESPN or Rivals or any worse than ON3 and 247? Can you prove any are better or worse than the other? Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
I'd point to anecdotal evidence (which is notoriously unreliable) or the collective wisdom of the Recruiting Board (which is notoriously even more unreliable).
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:21 pm to misey94
quote:I did this right before signing day and it had LSU 9th. I think I should redo it.
Anyone who wants an average should just take On3 and 247’s own team or player rankings and average them. Leave Rivals and especially ESPN where the belong- on the sideline. Everyone who knows recruiting knows they are the only legitimate services at this point
This was pre signing day with only 247 and 0n3 added in.
1. UGA
2. Bama
3. Ohio St
4. FSU
5. Texas
6. Oklahoma/ND
8. Miami
9. LSU
10. Florida
This is after signing day and currently up to date
1. UGA
2. Bama
3. Ohio St
4. Texas (both are tied in ranking, but Ohio St has a slightly higher player average)
5. Miami (they are top 6 on both. Crazy class they brought in)
6. LSU
7. Oregon
8. Notre Dame
9. Oklahoma
10. Penn St
Outside of the top 5 LSU and Notre Dame are the only other 2 schools inside the top 10 on both services' personal rankings.
LSU averages out th the 6th best class when you only use 247 and 0n3 (the only ones you should use.
The class calculator is only on 247 and I can only show the composite. However currently at 11th with the BS Rivals and ESPN added in. If we get Echols and McKinley, we jump to 8th.
This post was edited on 12/21/23 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:25 pm to Salviati
Anyone can burn their own tape. All recruiting rankings are cancer
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:38 pm to Datbayoubengal
quote:
Miami (they are top 6 on both. Crazy class they brought in)
Very top heavy. They have a couple 5-stars, but have 14 3-stars, the most in the Top 20. You have to get to No. 21 Texas Tech with 15 3-stars before anyone has more than Miami.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:42 pm to hogeb
quote:
The differences in evaluations at each of the 4 sites is an indication of how subjective they are. An industry average does not fix this variance because these are not real statistics, just different evaluator’s opinions. None of them are better than coaches, which is why offers provide better expectations of how recruits will pan out. The fact that some players on one service are ranked in the top 100 and not even in the top 300 on other sites just proves how unreliable these evaluations are.
THIS!!!! I have pointed out the other several follies of the recruiting services but this is near the top. IF as you stated that evaluations vary widely as they do BTW, then how in the HELL can someone quote them as gospel. And just filtering/smoothing out the widely varying scores basically fits into the old scientific term..."garbage in...garbage out"! The only change I would make to your statement is that services are NOT better than coaches as you stated but NOT as good as competent coaches who bring players into camps! {mic drop}
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:44 pm to Salviati
quote:
Don't have to "cancel" ESPN and Rivals, but you can't intelligently support their ratings
Go look at the top players at every position on every recruiting servicefor any time period you desire. Its littered with guys you've never heard of bc projecting 17 years olds is extremely difficult.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:46 pm to Salviati
It's because they only care about a handful of teams and the players associated with those teams. You aren't getting the depth other recruiting services have.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 2:08 pm to lsufanva
quote:
Can you prove either ESPN or Rivals or any worse than ON3 and 247? Can you prove any are better or worse than the other? Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. I do agree btw.
From what I have gathered, ESPN has the smallest staff dedicated purely towards high school recruiting. They don’t have enough bodies to see recruits, especially those in non-metro areas. You’ll also notice players around the same ranking on the big 3 sites, more-so now on3 and 247, with ESPN having larger gaps and more outliers. It seems like ESPN is more inconsistent because their main business isn’t high school recruiting, they just provide it as a side service because they have to.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 2:12 pm to Salviati
quote:
I'm looking at you Crown. The people look to you.
Salviati though the Bama REC member I am I must agree that we are in agreement
Posted on 12/21/23 at 2:46 pm to lsufanva
with ESPN it’s just a numbers game.
they don’t really have someone evaluating these players.
They have a recruiting section because they have to hit it has like 3 writers and 1 scout.
they don’t really have someone evaluating these players.
They have a recruiting section because they have to hit it has like 3 writers and 1 scout.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 3:01 pm to Salviati
The only real way to know which service is better would be to assess the frequency at which their ratings hit/missed. Are the 247 5 ??s getting drafted in first round at a greater frequency than the Rivals 5 ??s? Are the 3s and 4s getting drafted with more frequency from one site or the other?
I don’t know that anyone has done this assessment, so I don’t know if you can really judge them.
I don’t know that anyone has done this assessment, so I don’t know if you can really judge them.
Posted on 12/21/23 at 3:12 pm to lsufanva
quote:
Can you prove either ESPN or Rivals
you actually can. look at where the kid was rated and look at where he was drafted and see how many they got right
Posted on 12/21/23 at 3:23 pm to Midtiger farm
quote:Can you post the data then that shows ESPN & Rivals misses the mark more than the others?
you actually can. look at where the kid was rated and look at where he was drafted and see how many they got right
Posted on 12/21/23 at 3:37 pm to Salviati
Rivals, 247, and On3 were all started by the same guy
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