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re: I Hope All Faithful Catholics Will Join Me In Prayer That When Pope Francis is Called Home

Posted on 12/21/23 at 8:51 am to
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25753 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 8:51 am to
quote:

It’s about two dudes or gals coming up and asking priest to bless their unnatural, immoral, sexual relationship. Normalizing sin to justify one's actions is a slippery slope.

Not about any individual asking for a blessing.


The blessing is to an individual.

The individual may be in a same sex union.
But God's grace is offered to the individual (or multiple individuals which happens quite frequently as well at mass or gatherings).

What sins preclude an individual from God's blessing?
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25753 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 8:52 am to
quote:

quote:
In a world full of sinners, I struggle to understand which sins preclude one from blessings and which ones don't.


The ones who refuse to repent.

See that was easy.


I've seen hundreds of blessings offered to non-catholics.

Blessings do not have to coincide with the sacraments.

Some priests offer them out like candy to children (freely).

I don't think you are correct.
Posted by Zarkinletch416
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Member since Jan 2020
8406 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 9:00 am to
Thank God for the Catholic Church of Africa and her Bishops.

Regretably, I have to admit this Pope (aka Jorge Mario Bergoglio) is neither Catholic nor Christian.

Yes, I agree. I pray to Bergoglio's Boss (God) daily that He will call this guy home for a good tongue-lashing.

In the meantime, I pray the Church will pick an African to the Chair of Peter. My favorite - Robert Cardinal Sarah of Guinea.

Pater caelestis, exoro te, defende nos ab his, qui ad nos veniunt, ut lupi specie oves, Amen.
Posted by KingOfTheWorld
South of heaven, west of hell
Member since Oct 2018
5432 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 9:17 am to
I was in the hospital at St Vincent’s, a Catholic hospital in Birmingham, earlier this year. The hospital chaplain Fr. Pol is from Nigeria. He prayed with me, blessed me, anointed me with oil and we said an Our Father together. He was funny, patient and kind. We didn’t discuss any of these matters but dude was very cool. With this news my view of African priests is even higher.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33577 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 9:38 am to
quote:

I Hope All Faithful Catholics Will Join Me In Prayer That When Pope Francis is Called Home
Weird take on papal infallibility. Enjoy hell.
Posted by Old Character
Member since Jan 2018
873 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 9:42 am to
The Catholic Church is a political machine. They will do whatever the current political climate dictates while keeping their practitioners sitting right on the edge of satisfied by letting them hold on a little tradition.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
68152 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 9:44 am to

We love our based African Bishops, don't we folks.
Posted by 3nOut
Central Texas, TX
Member since Jan 2013
28991 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 9:47 am to
quote:

African Christians are the most based, for sure. Maybe equally with Chinese Christians.



we partner with some churches in Rwanda and they are assuredly based. not politically but in views of scripture.

before the Schizm of the Methodist church, African Methodist churches stopped the takeover by the progressive group in 2016, but they were able to take over in 2020 without their presence.
Posted by Wing T
Hooks, TX
Member since Aug 2022
387 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 9:52 am to
The concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. First, the New Testament does not teach that there are to be priests in the New Covenant. Instead, the New Testament teaches that all believers are priests. First Peter 2:5-9 describes believers as a “holy priesthood” and a “royal priesthood.” Revelation 1:6 and 5:10 both describe believers as “a kingdom of priests.” In the Old Covenant, the faithful had to approach God through the priests. The priests were mediators between the people and God. The priests offered sacrifices to God on behalf of the people. That is no longer necessary. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we can now approach God’s throne with boldness (Hebrews 4:16). The temple veil tearing in two at Jesus’ death was symbolic of the dividing wall between God and humanity being destroyed. We can approach God directly, ourselves, without the use of a human mediator. Why? Because Jesus Christ is our great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-15; 10:21) and the only mediator between us and God (1 Timothy 2:5). The New Testament teaches that there are to be elders (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:6-9), deacons (1 Timothy 3:8-13), and pastors (Ephesians 4:11) – but not priests.

When it comes to confession of sin, believers are told in 1 John 1:9 to confess their sins to God. God is faithful and just to forgive our sins as we confess them to Him. James 5:16 speaks of confessing our trespasses “to one another,” but this is not the same as confessing sins to a priest as the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Priests / church leaders are nowhere mentioned in the context of James 5:16. Further, James 5:16 does not link forgiveness of sins with the confession of sins “to one another.”

The Roman Catholic Church bases their practice of confession to a priest primarily on Catholic tradition. Catholics do point to John 20:23, “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” From this verse, Catholics claim that God gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins and that authority was passed on to the successors of the apostles, i.e., the bishops and priests of the Roman Catholic Church. There are several problems with this interpretation. (1) John 20:23 nowhere mentions confession of sin. (2) John 20:23 nowhere promises or even hints that apostolic authority of any kind would be passed on to the successors of the apostles. (3) The apostles never once in the New Testament acted as if they had the authority to forgive a person’s sin. Similarly, Catholics point to Matthew 16:19 and 18:18 (binding and loosing) as evidence for the Catholic Church’s authority to forgive sins. The same three above points apply equally to these Scriptures.

The ability to forgive sins is God’s and His alone (Isaiah 43:25). The better understanding of John 20:23 is that the apostles were given the responsibility of declaring with utmost certainty the terms on which God would forgive sins. As the church was being founded, the apostles declared that those who believed the gospel were forgiven (Acts 16:31) and those who did not obey the gospel faced judgment (2 Thessalonians 1:8; 1 Peter 4:17). As the apostles proclaimed salvation in Christ (Acts 10:43) and exercised church discipline (1 Corinthians 5:4–5), they were wielding the authority Christ had given them.

Again, the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9). As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us. First Timothy 2:5 says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18995 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 9:52 am to
quote:

biblical case for confession
“If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Man, that's weak.

Even if the Roman interpretation of that was correct, nothing indicates that confession is binding and must happen at least once per year. So why was this established as canon law in 1215?
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
4175 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 10:04 am to
quote:

LINK


I'm not exactly sure what the point of that link in the context of this discussion was, but I agree with the speaker.

I have long said that comfort is the greatest enemy of Christianity, not persecution. Persecution emboldens, strengthens, galvanizes faith. Comfort kills it like a cancer.

The first 15 or so minutes of this podcast underscore your link and provide more detail on how the government of the United States contributes to the problem.

Go To Church
This post was edited on 12/21/23 at 10:08 am
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
874 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 10:07 am to
I would rather respond to this than the presuppositional word salad above your post, because I know you are at least sincerely curious about your question.

quote:

nothing indicates that confession is binding and must happen at least once per year. So why was this established as canon law?


What is required once a year as a bare minimum is to receive the Eucharist during the Easter season.

"You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season." (CCC 2042).

If a Catholic is conscious of mortal sin, they need to go to Confession before receiving the Eucharist.

Hence it became a common misconception that the Easter duty requires confession at least once a year. But if one is not conscious of any mortal sin, there is no requirement to go to confession.

We call these people CEO Catholics, for Christmas Easter Only. I prefer to call them CINOs, for Catholic In Name Only.

Most practicing Catholics confess as least monthly. I try to go at least every other week, just as a good spiritual habit.
This post was edited on 12/21/23 at 10:14 am
Posted by Oneulus
Member since Sep 2021
88 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 10:35 am to
Jesus himself said “Go and sin no more” to the prostitute, he did not bless her sinful behavior
Posted by Guntoter1
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2020
1022 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 11:36 am to
quote:

The concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. Fi


Lmao. You say this then cite exactly where it DOES say this in scripture . Then you do all kinds of mental gymnastics to support your point of view.
Posted by Wing T
Hooks, TX
Member since Aug 2022
387 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 11:42 am to
LMAO, nice rebuttal. Scripture is "mental gymnastics..."
I think I found why you're incapable of explaining yourself.
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
874 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:20 pm to
Let us not forget that sola scriptura is a false, unhistoric, and self-defeating doctrine.

Therefore, we can appeal to sources outside of scripture to see how the earliest Christians interpreted scripture passages.

The Didache was one of the most widely circulated documents in the 1st century, moreso than many of the NT epistles. It even predates many of the NT epistles. It was accepted as the first Catechism by most in the early church. In reference to confession, it states the following:

“Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure” (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).

Most of the non-gospel NT epistles were written to address bad or heretical practices that were creeping into the 1st century churches, such as those things being taught by the gnostics, judaizers, etc.

Here's what is interesting...the Didache, as one of the most copied and widely circulated documents, is never once addressed by an Apostle.

Not one letter penned against infant baptism, baptism by affusion instead of only immersion, public confession of sins, etc.

Sounds an awful lot like the apostles who were still alive, such as John, didn't feel the need to address these teachings, because they didn't believe them to be false.
Posted by Diamondawg
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
32337 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 1:27 pm to
The United Methodist Church has split and some of the most conservative of the Churches are in Africa. But, the evil UMC is not letting them go through the same disaffiliation process that we in the states were allowed to do. Evil is not a term I throw around lightly, either.
Posted by bizeagle
Member since May 2020
1168 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 4:50 pm to
I typically avoid this Catholic vs. Protestant debate as I believe a huge % of Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, etc. are our Christian bothers and sisters. Plus, I do not wish to cause them to doubt their Christianity/ salvation.

However, as I have done some research on the topic I have found that there are easy to understand, objective, non-offensive commentaries on the debate. This guy does a good job of constructing key arguments from the reformed evangelical point of view, if you are interested:
LINK - Cerebral Faith
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
17870 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 5:22 pm to
quote:

In a world full of sinners, I struggle to understand which sins preclude one from blessings and which ones don't.


Every time a priest offers a blessing, it is a blessing bestowed upon a sinner since we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. The difference here is this new Vatican directive offers blessings on “irregular” relationships and thus shifts the focus from the sinful individual to the sin itself.

Although many are arguing this new doctrine does not contradict or alter centuries of Catholic doctrine, this new Vatican proclamation sows confusion and unnecessarily creates scandal since priests already have the discretion to issue pastoral blessings on sinful individuals. Yet unnecessarily creating scandal and sowing division unfortunately has proven to be the modus operandi of this Jesuit Pope.

Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
50358 posts
Posted on 12/21/23 at 5:44 pm to
quote:

this new Vatican directive offers blessings on “irregular” relationships and thus shifts the focus from the sinful individual to the sin itself.


Blessing people isn’t the same as blessing their sins.

quote:

this new Vatican proclamation sows confusion

I don’t think it’s confusing at all.

quote:

and unnecessarily creates scandal since priests already have the discretion to issue pastoral blessings on sinful individuals.


Every single individual is sinful so I guess no one should ever receive a blessing.
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