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Started By
Message
re: Indexed Universal Life policy. Who has done it?
Posted on 7/27/23 at 11:04 pm to HailToTheChiz
Posted on 7/27/23 at 11:04 pm to HailToTheChiz
When a guy told me him and his family gradually transition term to full life policies over time as part of the investment portfolio I knew then and there I was done. It’s just obvious when people are either too dumb or only care about how much they make. If one of your biggest pitches continually comes back to high as giraffe pussy insurance then I’m done.
This post was edited on 7/28/23 at 6:12 am
0
Posted on 7/27/23 at 11:06 pm to meansonny
quote:
Buy term. Invest the rest.
How long have you been with Primerica?
Posted on 7/27/23 at 11:16 pm to La Place Mike
quote:
Primerica
Never.
Is that their slogan?
Posted on 7/27/23 at 11:23 pm to meansonny
quote:
Never.
Is that their slogan
So you have no idea where the "buy term, invest the rest" mantra came from? It's not their slogan but it may as well be.
Posted on 7/27/23 at 11:34 pm to La Place Mike
quote:
So you have no idea where the "buy term, invest the rest" mantra came from?
I've never studied the origins of the term. No.
You asked someone to proof the terminology and I asked if you have ever seen anyone retire comfortably when they only purchased term coverage for their life insurance.
Do I win anything for the proof?
Posted on 7/28/23 at 7:30 am to meansonny
Well based off what I’m putting in right now at 58 I’m going to have 65k a year In tax free income. If I pay it to 63 I’ll have about 75k per year…..TAXFREE
I’m also insured past my 55 year term cut off for life.
I’m also insured past my 55 year term cut off for life.
This post was edited on 7/28/23 at 7:32 am
Posted on 7/28/23 at 8:08 am to L S Usetheforce
How much are you putting in and how long have you been doing it? Let’s run the numbers for you.
Edit: also what’s your age, health, and death benefit value? Let’s go ahead and make a comparable term quote.
Edit: also what’s your age, health, and death benefit value? Let’s go ahead and make a comparable term quote.
This post was edited on 7/28/23 at 8:20 am
Posted on 7/28/23 at 8:56 am to meansonny
quote:
I asked if you have ever seen anyone retire comfortably when they only purchased term coverage for their life insurance.
Dumb question and proves nothing. I could ask if you have ever seen anyone retire comfortably when they only purchased permanent life coverage.
Posted on 7/28/23 at 8:59 am to Shepherd88
quote:
How much are you putting in and how long have you been doing it? Let’s run the numbers for you.
Why do you need this information? You should be able to prove it with out it.
Posted on 7/28/23 at 9:12 am to HailToTheChiz
I’m by no means an expert, but in my review of the product, it seems like I would be combining index investing with a non-investment life insurance product and paying someone for the privilege of bundling them together for me?
Even ignoring my standard objections to whole life policies, could you explain what benefit this brings when compared to simply buying a whole life plan and investing in index funds separately?
Even ignoring my standard objections to whole life policies, could you explain what benefit this brings when compared to simply buying a whole life plan and investing in index funds separately?
Posted on 7/28/23 at 9:24 am to La Place Mike
quote:
Why do you need this information? You should be able to prove it with out it.
Then you are an idiot and I can see why you got suckered into a product like those
Posted on 7/28/23 at 9:32 am to La Place Mike
Completely agree. Impossible to "prove" without knowing the number going in.
For me personally, the whole life would underperform by about 40% compared to expected return in S&P stocks. Even factoring in a 15% tax rate long term cap gains, I would be leaving signicant money on the table. For inheritance reasons, it could close that margin some, but that's projecting policy potentially 50 years down the road.
This doesn't even factor in tax harvesting, etc. that I can do to try to minimize this tax burden further.
For me personally, the whole life would underperform by about 40% compared to expected return in S&P stocks. Even factoring in a 15% tax rate long term cap gains, I would be leaving signicant money on the table. For inheritance reasons, it could close that margin some, but that's projecting policy potentially 50 years down the road.
This doesn't even factor in tax harvesting, etc. that I can do to try to minimize this tax burden further.
This post was edited on 7/28/23 at 9:34 am
Posted on 7/28/23 at 9:41 am to Shepherd88
quote:
Then you are an idiot and I can see why you got suckered into a product like those
No reason to be insulting. Something sold you on how buying term and investing the rest is a winning strategy. So, what sold you on the strategy? You don't need his information to prove it.
Posted on 7/28/23 at 9:54 am to GeauxTigers777
quote:
For me personally, the whole life would underperform by about 40% compared to expected return in S&P stocks.
Well, I am not advocating that WL or an IUL should be purchased as an investment.
The biggest issue is that a lot of brokers that push buy term and invest the rest are just as disingenuous as agents that sell permanent life products as investments.
You don't need an individuals information to prove "buy term, invest the rest" works. If it works it should be easy to prove. I will ask you, what sold you on the strategy? Did you see anything or are you just taking someones word that it works?
Posted on 7/28/23 at 9:55 am to HailToTheChiz
Yea, if you are of the 1% that has money laying around it’s not a bad thing to do. At the end of the day it’s life insurance. If you try to justify it as an investment there’s plenty of actual “investments” out there that are better. It does have tax benefits but really only needs to be done for super high earners. Another good thing to look into would be attaching a long term care rider on too it.
Posted on 7/28/23 at 10:03 am to L S Usetheforce
quote:
Well based off what I’m putting in right now at 58 I’m going to have 65k a year In tax free income. If I pay it to 63 I’ll have about 75k per year…..TAXFREE
Explain that one for me, please.
UL is tax deferred.
You may have something that I haven't heard of.
The only tax free "investment" to my knowledge is HSA.
Roth for tax free gains. Life insurance isn't eligible as a Roth.
You may be able to get favorable withdrawal status. But anything withdrawn over premiums paid should be taxable.
Posted on 7/28/23 at 10:05 am to La Place Mike
quote:
Dumb question and proves nothing. I could ask if you have ever seen anyone retire comfortably when they only purchased permanent life coverage.
We could easily compare fee structures of instruments.
And that comparison wouldn't be close.
Posted on 7/28/23 at 10:07 am to La Place Mike
Whole life insurance is a tool…and like any tool it’s irreplaceable in certain circumstances. At the stage of life when it’s affordable, you cannot predict whether it will be financially useless or the only money available to heirs to close your estate. Running out of money is real for a lot of seniors with rising health care costs.
I think everyone should have some baseline of whole life for this reason. And no I don’t sell life insurance.
I think everyone should have some baseline of whole life for this reason. And no I don’t sell life insurance.
Posted on 7/28/23 at 10:08 am to meansonny
quote:
We could easily compare fee structures of instruments.
And that comparison wouldn't be close.
Which has nothing to do with a comfortable retirement. So, are you going to supply the data or just ramble on?
Posted on 7/28/23 at 10:15 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
I think everyone should have some baseline of whole life for this reason. And no I don’t sell life insurance.
You forget who your audience is on the Money Talk Board. Most of the posters on this board are some of the greatest money managers in world! They have millions in assets and make OT ballers look like paupers. They have no idea of the needs and concerns of the average investor that, if they are lucky, only has a 401K at work.
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