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re: 2023 IndyCar Season - R17 Laguna Seca 9/10 2:30 pm ET (NBC)

Posted on 5/18/23 at 8:16 am to
Posted by Possumslayer
Pascagoula
Member since Jan 2018
6213 posts
Posted on 5/18/23 at 8:16 am to
Go Kanan!
Posted by AutoYes_Clown
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2012
5181 posts
Posted on 5/18/23 at 9:22 am to
Is there a website tracking tow vs no-tow this early? I saw David Land mentioning some no-tow top runners but I can't find the data.
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/18/23 at 10:20 am to
Yeah, no-tow speeds are harder to find. Probably only mentioned briefly in articles rather than fully listed out. But I think it was Land who said no-tow speeds on the first day are probably meaningless. Most teams are focused on race setup / performance in traffic. He noted that VeeKay's tow speed was barely higher than his no-tow speed. I don't really care until Friday when they're on qualy boost and everyone tries to do qualy sims in clean air.
Posted by BlueWaffleHouse
LA
Member since Jul 2012
1855 posts
Posted on 5/18/23 at 10:36 am to
quote:

Is there a website tracking tow vs no-tow this early? I saw David Land mentioning some no-tow top runners but I can't find the data.


On the indycar website the live timing and scoring wasn’t populating the No tow times yesterday for me, just best lap and last lap speeds.

They will release a pdf at the end of the sessions with the detailed data usually
Posted by Cocotheape
Member since Aug 2015
3782 posts
Posted on 5/18/23 at 11:53 am to
Increasing the boost pressure for quali only is a gimmick and I wish they would stop doing it (or allow the higher boost pressure in the race). Just artificially trying to get those speeds up with the final CART at Indy years.
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/18/23 at 7:13 pm to
quote:

On the indycar website the live timing and scoring wasn’t populating the No tow times yesterday for me, just best lap and last lap speeds.

They will release a pdf at the end of the sessions with the detailed data usually

Neither the web page results table nor the PDF of the session includes the no-tow speeds. Thursday's PDF:

www.imscdn.com/INDYCAR/Documents/6199/2023-05-18/indycar-results-p4.pdf


Posted by AutoYes_Clown
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2012
5181 posts
Posted on 5/18/23 at 8:23 pm to
quote:

He noted that VeeKay's tow speed was barely higher than his no-tow speed.


This is the only reason I would want to see tow vs no-tow this early. I think they were saying Veekay and Illot's tow to no-tow were not separated. Its going to be tough for those two to make the field.
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 1:45 am to
Here are the Thursday (Day 2) speeds. I've made further improvements to my table. You can easily see the Honda vs Chevy battle and where the 4 rookies and 9 former winners are in the order.

It's hard to make predictions until we see their Friday speeds, but as of now, if I had to guess which four drivers will be battling in bump qualy for the last row, it would be Callum Illott, Katherine Legge, RC Enerson, and former 3-time pole winner Ed Carpenter, who hasn't hit 225 mph yet.

Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 1:50 am to
After two days of practice at race boost and running in traffic, Friday will be all about qualifying sims at higher qualy boost. The top guys will be over 230 mph. Like Coco says, qualy boost is a gimmick so they can publicize speeds over 230 mph. I remember a few years ago IndyCar was even talking about making adjustments to set record speeds. For reference:

Fastest 4-lap average pole speed: 234.046 mph Scott Dixon (2022)
Fastest 4-lap average qualy speed: 236.986 mph Arie Luyendyk (1996)
Fastest single qualy lap speed: 237.498 mph Arie Luyendyk (1996)

Luyendyk's Saturday qualy time was thrown out because he failed post-qualy inspection. So he had to re-qualify on Sunday where he set his record speed, but had to start P21.

FYI, the record IndyCar qualifying speeds were actually set at California Speedway in Fontana. In 1997 I went to the first ever race at California Speedway, where Mauricio Gugelmin got pole position at 240.942 mph, the first time IndyCar set a lap over 240 mph. The record came in 2000 when Gil de Ferran did a 241.428 mph qualy lap. I believe it's still considered a "closed course world record" speed.

CART Gil de Ferran 241.428 mph Fontana 2000 (YouTube)
Posted by XenScott
Pensacola
Member since Oct 2016
3163 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 9:58 am to
Incredible.
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 3:16 pm to
After 4 hours, with 2 hours left, here's where they stand. Now we have a better idea of what we'll see tomorrow.

Looks like the Carpenter team is fine. Takuma Sato has the fasteset 1-lap speed at 234.753 mph, but he said it was clear that they had too little downforce and he abandoned that run and set his fast 4-lap average on another run.

Illott's team finally decided to give up on his car and switch to a backup car (the car that his teammate Canapino used at the recent open test). So they need to build the car and they'll be going into tomorrow cold.

Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 7:15 pm to
OK, at the end of Fast Friday, here's where we're at. Everyone ran with qualy boost and it was all about doing simulated 4-lap qualy runs. Late in the session the temperatures came down, and as expected, Ganassi and Penske showed great speed, with two from each team going faster than 233 mph in their four-lap average qualy sim runs. Scott Dixon did a late run but had a problem and finished below where everyone expected him to be.

(The dopey IndyCar site only posted the one-lap speeds for the session results. I got most of the 4-lap info directly from the TV screen during the session, but confirmed the final numbers thanks to David Land's video.)

The top four guys on single-lap speed, Takuma Sato (234.753), Marco Andretti (234.202), Rinus VeeKay (234.171), and Marcus Ericsson (234.029), all had the fastest practice laps since 1996. That was the first year of the CART/IRL split, but they still used the CART cars/engines for one last time.

It's clear that Team Rahal is on shaky ground. All four of their drivers are near the bottom of the chart. Also, as I mentioned, Juncos Hollinger decided to swap Callum Illott's car with the chassis that his teammate Canapino used in the recent open test. They only started the engine swap near the end of the day, so they will be going into Saturday cold. Canapino is in good shape on the chart, so if the car swap and setup goes well, Illott might be in fine shape for tomorrow.

This post was edited on 5/20/23 at 12:10 am
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 7:23 pm to
The schedule for this weekend.

On Saturday, the fast guys will be aiming to be in the Top 12 to advance to the pole shootout on Sunday.

The slow guys will be aiming to stay out of the bottom 4 cars, which will be forced to qualify for the last 3 spots on the grid on Sunday.

Saturday May 20
Practice 8:30 AM ET (Peacock)
Qualifying 11:00 AM ET (Peacock)
Qualifying 2:30 PM ET (NBC)


Sunday May 21
Practice 11:30 AM ET (Peacock)

Top-12 Qualifying 2:00 PM ET (Peacock)
To set Rows 3 and 4 (P7-P12)

Pole Shootout and Bump Qualy 4:00 PM ET (NBC)
To set Rows 1 and 2 (P1-P6)
Plus the slowest four cars will compete for the last row of the grid. One car will go home!
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 7:33 pm to
After a random drawing, here is the Saturday qualifying order. Since conditions can change drastically, it's possible the early runners have an advantage since track temperatures will surely rise into the afternoon. If the temperatures fall late in the afternoon there may be a rush to re-qualify at the end of the day.

I believe they are still using the two-lane system after the intial qualifying runs are done. In the priority lane you can get on the track fast, but you must give up your already-qualified position before starting your run. If you start from the regular lane, you can abort your run and keep your previous qualifying speed.

Indianapolis 500 qualifying order

01 Ryan Hunter-Reay
02 Colton Herta
03 Will Power
04 Helio Castroneves
05 Marco Andretti
06 Marcus Ericsson
07 Christian Lundgaard
08 Alexander Rossi
09 Scott Dixon
10 Simon Pagenaud
11 Benjamin Pedersen
12 Sting Ray Robb
13 Felix Rosenqvist
14 Tony Kanaan
15 Ed Carpenter
16 R.C. Enerson
17 Jack Harvey
18 Conor Daly
19 Devlin DeFrancesco
20 Graham Rahal
21 Rinus VeeKay
22 Pato O'Ward
23 Callum Ilott
24 Stefan Wilson
25 Takuma Sato
26 David Malukas
27 Santino Ferrucci
28 Alex Palou
29 Romain Grosjean
30 Kyle Kirkwood
31 Katherine Legge
32 Scott McLaughlin
33 Augustin Canapino
34 Josef Newgarden


Edit: A couple of notes I forgot to mention earlier...

1. I heard Pato O'Ward say in a couple of interviews that the new aerodynamic bits aren't going to help the racing. The problem has been that in a train of cars, the first three or four cars have a chance to race and pass, but the air gets worse beyond that and cars behind the third or fourth car are stuck in the train. O'Ward says the situation has not improved this year.

2. On Friday we had our first engine failure. At the end of the day on his last run, Jack Harvey's Honda engine spewed smoke. It was later confirmed that the engine expired and will be replaced for Saturday.
This post was edited on 5/20/23 at 1:22 am
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 10:35 am to
Qualifying 11:00 AM ET (Peacock)
Qualifying 2:30 PM ET (NBC)

Qualy has started on Peacock. It'll be on NBC later.

Helio has already brushed the wall !
Posted by AutoYes_Clown
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2012
5181 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 2:39 pm to
The Argentinian needs to change rear toe link and his pants.
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 3:38 pm to
TK!

Late drama...
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 4:46 pm to
The 34th entry is having a huge effect on the Top 12. No one can try to break into the Top 12 because the guys at the bottom in Lane 1 using up all the time.

Newgarden gave up his time, and lost a place. It was worth the attempt though.
Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82
near the Apple spaceship
Member since Nov 2012
5251 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 6:08 pm to
Saturday Qualification Results

Positions 13-30 are locked in. Everyone else qualifies tomorrow.

The Top 12 will shoot for pole tomorrow in two stages. First stage is to set P7-P12. Second stage is the Top 6 going for pole.

I believe the cars in the bottom four will have up to two attempts each to avoid being at the bottom and out of the race.

In the Top 12 all four McLaren drivers, all four Ganassi drivers, and both AJ Foyt drivers are in! Plus one car each from the Carpenter and Penske teams. Obviously the Foyt team is the biggest positive surprise. The negative surprises are the mediocre showings from the Penske and Andretti teams, and the absolutely abysmal showing from the Rahal team, where all three regular drivers are in the bottom four. Only the temp driver Legge made it out of bump qualifying.

Posted by EhSeeJay
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Nov 2010
412 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 8:18 pm to
My thoughts. Chevy (interestingly sans Penske) had a good day. Really happy to see Foyt cars showing well. Arrow McClaren is already a super team. It’s not going to be long before everyone is chasing them. I’m surprised Daly didn’t have more to show. If he doesn’t have a good race his days are numbered at ECR.

Andretti AS very meh. RLL, epic disaster. Unexplainable failure. Whatever they did this year, they need to blow it all up and start again.
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