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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 5/17/24 at 12:46 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 5/17/24 at 12:46 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You are correct of course. There were no guarantees. Instead, there were solid verbal assurances. But as those were issued to the USSR, they were technically nonbinding re: Russia.
Not true in both cases.
Gorbie said that not true at all.
Russia was the heir to all of the USSR's agreements.
0
Posted on 5/17/24 at 12:48 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
My questions related to Yeltsin. He preceded Putin.
Putin is who made the claims about NATO and that was after he pulled out of the partnership with NATO.
So an offers made, or not made, to Russa under Yettsin have zero bearing
Posted on 5/17/24 at 1:03 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Your comparative references were to the USSR.
Call it what you want, it’s all the same types running thing , Sure they changed names, but did they every quit pointing thousands of nukes at us?
You cry about our tax dollars going to Ukraine getting stolen, laundered or misappropriated; however, you believe we should have aided Russia the way we aided Western Europe?
Come on man.
Posted on 5/17/24 at 1:35 pm to doubleb
quote:Good Lord, NO!
Call it what you want, it’s all the same types running thing
Yeltsin and Putin were as similar as Biden and Trump.
Posted on 5/17/24 at 1:53 pm to NC_Tigah
Russia's Tuapse oil refinery halted after Ukrainian drone attack, sources say
By Reuters
May 17, 202410:25 AM CDT
MOSCOW, May 17 (Reuters) - A fire triggered by a Ukrainian drone attack on Russia's Tuapse oil refinery on the Black Sea coast has forced an emergency shut down of the refinery, two sources familiar with the matter said.
The fire at the refinery, owned by Rosneft, was extinguished, Russia's state-run TASS news agency reported on Friday.
Russian air defen?es and the Black Sea Fleet destroyed 102 Ukrainian drones and six uncrewed boats during the night, Russia's defence ministry said.
Reuters
By Reuters
May 17, 202410:25 AM CDT
MOSCOW, May 17 (Reuters) - A fire triggered by a Ukrainian drone attack on Russia's Tuapse oil refinery on the Black Sea coast has forced an emergency shut down of the refinery, two sources familiar with the matter said.
The fire at the refinery, owned by Rosneft, was extinguished, Russia's state-run TASS news agency reported on Friday.
Russian air defen?es and the Black Sea Fleet destroyed 102 Ukrainian drones and six uncrewed boats during the night, Russia's defence ministry said.
Reuters
Posted on 5/17/24 at 1:57 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Yeltsin and Putin were as similar as Biden and Trump.
And you believe Trump ran the govt. by himself? He did whatever he wanted?
Posted on 5/17/24 at 2:34 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
According to parties from all sides, had Johnson not interceded, the war would almost certainly have ended at that point.
Putins own words on April 12
quote:
In the strongest signal to date that the war will grind on for longer, Putin said Kyiv had derailed peace talks by staging what he said were fake claims of Russian war crimes and by demanding security guarantees to cover the whole of Ukraine.
Or how about Lavrov on April 7
quote:
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Thursday that Ukraine had presented Moscow with a draft peace deal containing "unacceptable" elements at variance with a previous agreement, comments that Kyiv dismissed as "pure propaganda".
The Kremlin has said talks with Ukraine are not progressing as rapidly as it would like, and has accused the West of trying to derail negotiations by raising war crimes allegations against Russian troops in Ukraine, which Moscow denies.
Lavrov said on Thursday that Ukraine had presented a draft agreement on Wednesday that deviated from proposals both sides' negotiators had agreed on.
Ukraine's new draft, according to Lavrov, said the status of Crimea, which Moscow annexed from Ukraine in 2014, should be raised at a meeting between the two countries' presidents.
It also said Ukraine could hold military drills with foreign countries without receiving Russia's permission, something Moscow disagrees with.
quote:
Lavrov said Russia was now keen to continue with the talks and secure its own demands.
"Despite all the provocations, the Russian delegation will continue with the negotiation process, pressing for our own draft agreement that clearly and fully outlines our initial and key positions and requirements," he said.
That doesn't sound like an agreed upon deal
Posted on 5/17/24 at 3:01 pm to cypher
quote:
A fire triggered by a Ukrainian drone attack on Russia's Tuapse oil refinery on the Black Sea coast has forced an emergency shut down of the refinery, two sources familiar with the matter said.
The fire at the refinery, owned by Rosneft, was extinguished, Russia's state-run TASS news agency reported on Friday.
A refinery doesn't have and on/off switch. Shutdown has to be in proper sequence of each process unit. Startup has to also be sequential. It is startup when a refinery could have fire or even explosion in several of the downstream units. During startup several can only operate at 10% of capacity until stability is achieved.
That being said, there is no mention of extent of damage which there obviously was.
Posted on 5/17/24 at 3:36 pm to doubleb
quote:Disappointing response. You are normally more contemplative. Especially when you feel confident enough to toss out invectives. Neither Hindenburg nor Hitler ran the German government by themselves .... at least at first.
And you believe Trump ran the govt. by himself? He did whatever he wanted?
Yeltsin, had we supported him, was prepared to take Russia in a completely different direction. Instead, a POTUS got caught up in a blow job scandal and decided to play international tough guy. We expanded NATO eastward and did other things, undercutting Yeltsin. The result was Putin.
You claim we should not have done more to bolster Yeltsin, or lessen the chance accession of a nationalist autocrat like Putin. You labeled my precept that we could have (and should have) as "stupid," which is bizarre.
This post was edited on 5/17/24 at 3:47 pm
Posted on 5/17/24 at 3:59 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Yeltsin, had we supported him, was prepared to take Russia in a completely different direction. Instead, a POTUS got caught up in a blow job scandal and decided to play international tough guy. We expanded NATO eastward and did other things, undercutting Yeltsin. The result was Putin.
Yeltsin basically resigned due corruption and handed over government to Putin with the condition that Yeltsin would neither be prosecuted nor even investigated.. The BJ scandal was AFTER Eastern European nations APPLIED for membership. One doesn't just join NATO without application and meeting certain conditions first.
Try harder next time, and you might find some get something correct without being OUT OF CONTEXT
Posted on 5/17/24 at 4:42 pm to No Colors
quote:
What was Russia's tactical objective? In February of 2022 that objective was to take the entire country.
So 4 minor provinces with no major cities seems like a failure. Maybe both sides lose according to your definition? In that case, we have hundreds of thousands dead, and trillions of damage done. And both sides lose.
Who's idea was this thing anyhow? (In before CIA MIC)
Sometimes being an adult means making the best of a terrible situation.
It's been blindingly obvious for well over a year now that NOBODY will win in this situation except corrupt politicians and defence contractors.
Some outsider with gravitas (Trump) will have to come in and say "that's enough" and work towards a cease fire and then a settlement. Get the Saudis involved and let based MBS strike deals with both sides, lift the sanctions, tell lil Mac to get fricked along with his tranny wife, and be done with it.
So let it be written. So let it be done.
This post was edited on 5/17/24 at 4:44 pm
Posted on 5/17/24 at 5:07 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Yeltsin, had we supported him, was prepared to take Russia in a completely different direction
Tell ll the complete story now, and quit making it sound like it’s our fault.
The process he began oligarchs gained a majority share of national property, This hrr Ed lo create a crisis which led to Yeltsin dissolving parliament. They tried to impeach him, but troops loyal to him saved his butt. He subsequently introduced s new constitution which gave him greater powers. He ran the country by decree after that.
Your boy was no George Washington. If we had pumped Billions into Russia the oligarchs would have gotten all they could as would Putin who forced him out in short order.
You profess to be an intelligent guy, but you go to extremes to blame all of Russias issues on us. The problem with Russia is it’s run by Russians.
Quit making excuses for Russia.
This post was edited on 5/17/24 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 5/17/24 at 7:06 pm to doubleb
ISW Update
quote:
Key Takeaways:
Russian President Vladimir Putin framed Russian offensive operations in northern Kharkiv Oblast as part of Russian efforts to create a "buffer zone" to protect Russian border areas from Ukrainian strikes, confirming ISW's previous assessments.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky stated that Ukrainian forces have stabilized the front in northern Kharkiv Oblast and that Russian forces have not reached Ukraine's "concrete" and "most powerful" line of defense in the area.
Russian forces will likely be able to stretch Ukrainian forces along a wide front and fix Ukrainian troops in the international border area even as the tempo of Russian offensive operations in northern Kharkiv Oblast slows.
Russian forces reportedly leveraged notable electronic warfare (EW) capabilities to support tactically significant gains during the first days of their limited offensive operation in northern Kharkiv Oblast.
Senior NATO military commanders confirmed ISW's prior assessments that Russian forces do not have sufficient forces to achieve a "strategic breakthrough" in Ukraine.
Ukrainian forces conducted a series of large-scale aerial and naval drone strikes against Russian energy and port infrastructure in Krasnodar Krai and occupied Crimea on the night of May 16 to 17.
US officials reiterated the White House's unwillingness to support Ukraine's use of US-provided weapons in strikes against military targets in Russia.
Russian President Vladimir Putin attempted to further known Russian information operations intended to directly undermine Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's legitimacy as president.
Russian forces recently marginally advanced near Avdiivka.
Russian President Vladimir Putin attended the annual Russian-Chinese Expo and forum on interregional cooperation and visited Harbin Polytechnic University during the second and last day of his trip to the People's Republic of China (PRC) on May 17.
Ukrainian and Western sources continue to report that Russian forces are committing war crimes in newly occupied areas of Kharkiv Oblast.
Posted on 5/17/24 at 7:52 pm to StormyMcMan
Posted on 5/17/24 at 8:22 pm to Bunk Moreland
I figured there was more to this story, however, it looks like this is a baked story
LINK to actual article
From Wikipedia
So a Russian newspaper without any linked sources post an article saying Ukrainian soldiers were expelled from Germany for Nazi symbols. Not saying it didn't happen, but going to need more than one shoddy website saying a Russian newspaper reported it.
I find two other sources talking about, but both are Russian propaganda mouthpieces.
LINK to actual article
quote:
Germany deported seven Ukrainian soldiers who were training in the country on Thursday over their use of Nazi symbols, Kommersant reported.
From Wikipedia
quote:
Kommersant (Russian: ???????????, IPA: [k?m??r'sant], The Businessman or Commerce Man, often shortened to ?) is a nationally distributed daily newspaper published in Russia mostly devoted to politics and business
So a Russian newspaper without any linked sources post an article saying Ukrainian soldiers were expelled from Germany for Nazi symbols. Not saying it didn't happen, but going to need more than one shoddy website saying a Russian newspaper reported it.
I find two other sources talking about, but both are Russian propaganda mouthpieces.
This post was edited on 5/17/24 at 8:24 pm
Posted on 5/17/24 at 8:29 pm to cypher
I saw these clips of all of this last night on Xtwatter right before I fell asleep
https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1791342952096121115
https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1791342952096121115
Posted on 5/17/24 at 9:23 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
I figured there was more to this story, however, it looks like this is a baked story
Twitter account is a hardcore anti-American Australian chick She wrote a book, Woke, about prepping for Utopia with her housemate, an American born dude. Into astrology, loves her some China, and on and on.
Posted on 5/17/24 at 9:26 pm to doubleb
quote:Now YELTSIN was "my boy"?
our boy was no George Washington
Well DAMN, that's real progress. Yeltsin waa no George Washington
Earlier some imbecile proclaimed Putin to be my "Lord and Savior."
Posted on 5/17/24 at 9:57 pm to NC_Tigah
Let’s see- Yeltsin’s reforms didn’t last. Yeltsin became a dictator and he was eventually run out of office. The cause? US and Bill Clinton didn’t give them billions of dollars to impliment reforms and rebuild their economy.
The Russian stooge, the president of Ukraine goes against popular opinion, and is run out of Dodge. The Ukrainian parliament overwhelmingly votes him out. Putin invaded Ukraine. It’s Victoria Nuland, the CIA and Barrack Obama’s fault. They made Putin do it.
Putin launches larger attacks against Ukraine after occupying Crimea for 8 years and fighting along side Ukrainian rebels. Putin had to do all this because Bush’s SOS said that NATO wasn’t moving eastward twenty years ago and Ukraine wanted in NATO.
It all adds up. Russia has no control of their destiny. They are US puppets. They can’t help themselves. It’s all our fault.
The Russian stooge, the president of Ukraine goes against popular opinion, and is run out of Dodge. The Ukrainian parliament overwhelmingly votes him out. Putin invaded Ukraine. It’s Victoria Nuland, the CIA and Barrack Obama’s fault. They made Putin do it.
Putin launches larger attacks against Ukraine after occupying Crimea for 8 years and fighting along side Ukrainian rebels. Putin had to do all this because Bush’s SOS said that NATO wasn’t moving eastward twenty years ago and Ukraine wanted in NATO.
It all adds up. Russia has no control of their destiny. They are US puppets. They can’t help themselves. It’s all our fault.
This post was edited on 5/18/24 at 9:50 am
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