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re: What are your thoughts on the feminization of fantasy?

Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:25 pm to
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89741 posts
Posted on 7/10/23 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

Science fiction is more commonly read by male readers. I'm not sure about fantasy but suspect that depends on the subgenre.


Medieval "swords and sorcery" fantasy is still heavily male, but more balanced than science fiction.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51962 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

Many many many of the characters turned out to be Lesbian or Gay.


Sounds like a Mercedes Lackey book I read decades ago.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
116564 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

Kinda funny, I just read books 2 and 3 of that series after I had responded earlier in this thread. Django definitely has a tendency to have more lesbian/gay characters for sure, though in his case he always has, it's not something new. All three series I've read by him have had at least one lesbian main character. Though I've found all three series to be pretty solid.



Yes but in this case virtually every single character except Silvereye turned out to be gay. Even the one that "wasn't human"
Posted by Froman
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2007
36254 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

it seems lately that almost all lead characters in fantasy, whether written by a male or female, are women.


I’ve been reading a lot of fantasy the past few months and thought about this as well. I don’t hate it, but in a lot of them the main protagonist was female. I kind of feel like women are more likely to be readers than men, so female authors and female heroes are more commonplace now. It’s whatever. A good book is a good book.
Posted by auyushu
Surprise, AZ
Member since Jan 2011
8606 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 4:38 pm to
quote:

Even the one that "wasn't human"


To be fair, she only went lesbian because Silvereye turned her down . But yeah, a bunch of side characters randomly turning out to be gay in the last book was a bit much.
Posted by MAADFACTS
Member since Jul 2021
1280 posts
Posted on 7/12/23 at 8:42 am to
The reading public especially for fiction is overwhelmingly female. Science fiction is the outlier where there are 39 male reads for every 19 female readers, but the breakdown in fantasy is 23 male reads for every 25 female readers, which is still a high number of male readers for any other genre. But it makes sense if you are an author and writing something to have a lot of female characters because your goal is to sell books
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
59351 posts
Posted on 7/12/23 at 3:16 pm to
The entire publishing industry is dominated by women right now.
Posted by dgnx6
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
69178 posts
Posted on 7/12/23 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

Conservatives have largely abandoned culture in pursuit of business, money, profits.


let me know about those conservatives running amazon and facebook.

its prob because women are in all these companies now, and a lot of women writers out there.

This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 4:40 pm
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51962 posts
Posted on 7/14/23 at 10:11 pm to
quote:

What are your thoughts on the feminization of fantasy?


To me, there are three aspects to this:

1. Female writers writing fantasy
2. Authors writing fantasy for females (whether romance, scifi, etc)
3. Authors writing "woke" crap (ie: writing primarily to proselytize their social ideology, not to entertain or pose questions to the reader that makes them think)

Points 1 and 2 are natural and normal. Hickman and Weiss' Dragonlance series is a great example of point one, for example.

Point three is the problem. There's an audience for that and they are more than welcome to it, the issue I think most have problems with is that this is being pushed more into the mainstream.

What do I mean by "woke" within the context of feminization in fantasy? I mean the watering down of content to feed the guilt of those trying to make up for the oppressions of the past by over-compensating through diversity-washing everything they can. That over-compensation due to over-sensitivity makes them feel guilty if anything made by non-minorities (whether new or old) does not contain at least some minorities.

A great example of this is the decision by Wizards of the Coast that the drow race was a racist construct. This stance is, of course, ridiculous as blacks exist in the D&D world just as they do here in reality (see Chult in Faerun for example). Drow are even a different species.

These "woke" types can't separate fantasy from reality so they push their reality onto fantasy.

The good news is that there's plenty of fantasy out there for those who don't need nor want DEI as a focal point of whatever they are reading.
Posted by Shut Up Mulllet
Member since Apr 2021
798 posts
Posted on 7/15/23 at 10:10 am to
I’m a pretty big fantasy book fan. I can’t stand a female lead character. Maybe I’m old fashioned, maybe not.
Just too hard for me to envision a woman doing those type things.
Really hate it in moves. 90 pound wet girl kicking special forces dudes arse.
Please.
Posted by auyushu
Surprise, AZ
Member since Jan 2011
8606 posts
Posted on 7/16/23 at 3:28 am to
quote:

Really hate it in moves. 90 pound wet girl kicking special forces dudes arse.


There is a pretty huge difference between fantasy series doing this and a movie based on the real world.

In a fantasy book it can be completely normal depending on the magic and races in the books. It's kinda silly to me to push real world capabilities of females on to fantasy world females. The entire point of fantasy novels is that they are different worlds.

If you don't like female leads that's fine and dandy, different strokes for different folks. But not liking it because you are comparing it to real world scenarios is weird to me.

I mean, I'm always going to relate more to a well written male character for the most part, but I enjoy well written female protagonists as well.
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