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re: Chief's Harrison Butker delivers an unforgettable commencement address
Posted on 5/19/24 at 12:29 am to Freauxzen
Posted on 5/19/24 at 12:29 am to Freauxzen
quote:
If what he said about women is not "zealotry", then I'm sorry I assumed so.
His grouping of birthing a life and killing one as similar disorders qualifies more than the culture war headlines. Read the whole thread before hopping in next time.
This post was edited on 5/19/24 at 12:30 am
2
Posted on 5/19/24 at 7:33 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
well, he did a shite job at conveying that
As we've come to know the last few days, this is the read of low IQ apes the world over.
I don't think he was talking to those, but we've let them have opinions so we have to deal with it.
Posted on 5/19/24 at 8:33 am to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
His grouping of birthing a life and killing one as similar disorders qualifies more than the culture war headlines.
Dude, it's the wrong read. He was a Catholic guy, speaking to a catholic audience. Disorder is a very specific phrase in that context.
The commandments are the clearest distillation of God's will for man. As I've mentioned, disorder means not alignment with God's will.
Therefore, yes, committing murder is disordered. Not honoring your parents is disordered. Taking the Lords name in vain is disordered. Etc. They are different levels of severity, different causes and effects, they are all different kinds of "disorder." That's what he means.
He's not saying they are similar disorders, he us just saying they are not in alignment with God's will.
He is not saying that birthing a life and killing one are the same disorder that come from the same place that have the same level of severity. At all.
And I hope you realize that "birthing a life," is a really generous way to put surrogacy and IVF. The catholic perspective on both has nothing to do with "birthing a life'" and everything to do with how you get there.
You should at least read up before reacting so emotional to it.
Posted on 5/19/24 at 8:43 am to Freauxzen
quote:
And I hope you realize that "birthing a life," is a really generous way to put surrogacy and IVF.
Lmao
Posted on 5/19/24 at 8:53 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:quote:
And I hope you realize that "birthing a life," is a really generous way to put surrogacy and IVF.
Lmao
The point is that they are not just "birthing a life," and the Catholic disagreement is not such a simple take reaction that they are anti-"birthing a life."
They are against the embryos thrown away in IVF and they are against renting wombs and the forced separation of mother and child in surrogacy. And of the intended choices in genes and genders in both that it allows.
They are not against "birthing a life," that's another low iq take on what butker is saying.
Posted on 5/19/24 at 9:25 am to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
you have no moral or intellectual high ground here
quote:
by NawlinsTiger9
Posted on 5/19/24 at 10:33 am to Klark Kent
Sucks when people are that clueless huh?
Posted on 5/19/24 at 10:48 am to Freauxzen
quote:
They are against the embryos thrown away in IVF
That and much more.
Posted on 5/19/24 at 11:16 am to Freauxzen
I think you’ve lost the plot here on my initial issue with your “stay at home moms = religious zealots/what is the world coming to?!” emotional reaction.
The thing is, your description of his beliefs (which was thorough and well explained and honestly appreciated) and how he arrived to them is a very good example of an uncompromising pursuit of religious ideals, or zealotry.
It’s not emotional on my end - I’m just reading what he said. I’d wager that most casually religious people don’t believe surrogacy or IVF to be in defiance of God’s will as he does. There are even some examples of Catholics rebuking him in this very thread.
The thing is, your description of his beliefs (which was thorough and well explained and honestly appreciated) and how he arrived to them is a very good example of an uncompromising pursuit of religious ideals, or zealotry.
It’s not emotional on my end - I’m just reading what he said. I’d wager that most casually religious people don’t believe surrogacy or IVF to be in defiance of God’s will as he does. There are even some examples of Catholics rebuking him in this very thread.
This post was edited on 5/19/24 at 11:19 am
Posted on 5/19/24 at 12:04 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
That and much more.
So then you would agree that it's not so simple t say "birthing a life," so why then LMAO at saying they are not such simple concepts.
Posted on 5/19/24 at 12:11 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
I think you’ve lost the plot here on my initial issue with your “stay at home moms = religious zealots/what is the world coming to?!” emotional reaction.
The thing is, your description of his beliefs (which was thorough and well explained and honestly appreciated) and how he arrived to them is a very good example of an uncompromising pursuit of religious ideals, or zealotry.
Alright so let's have that chat.
Why is it an un compromising pursuit of religious ideals? We don't ACTUALLY know where life begins, unless you do. Any statement you make about that is arbitrary, and any scientist would say that. We don't have a point in time. We can make ourselves feel better with some " it doesn't have a brain yet" or something, but that's still arbitrary. There is no way to know. And there is no way to know, from their perspective, when a soul is attached to a life.
The Catholic doctrine essentially says it begins at Conception, so killing a bunch of humans to create one is probably not a great idea. You would call that opinions zealotry? There are other problems with IVF but that is the primary one.
So then everyone who is pro-life is a zealot?
quote:
It’s not emotional on my end - I’m just reading what he said.
But your reaction to it comes from a place where you think he said "disorder," as in a psychiatric disorder (would be my guess) drives the decision to IVF and surrogacy just like euthanasia. Or some variation of that. That's all I was referring to. That that interpretation of what he said is not really the truth.
quote:
I’d wager that most casually religious people don’t believe surrogacy or IVF to be in defiance of God’s will as he does. There are even some examples of Catholics rebuking him in this very thread.
A bunch of people believing or not believing a thing is not proof of it's veracity though. It doesn't matter that Catholic people disagree with him, from the doctrine itself, they would be incorrect. Just because there are some of them has no bearing on whether or not that is true.
Posted on 5/19/24 at 12:57 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
NawlinsTiger9
Dude look at your downvotes, stfu and take your L
This post was edited on 5/19/24 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 5/19/24 at 12:58 pm to SirWinston
quote:he should be used to taking L’s by now
Dude look at your downvotes, stfu and take your L
This post was edited on 5/19/24 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 5/19/24 at 1:10 pm to justice
does anyone not get the overwhelming irony of him speaking about being home makers to newly minted college graduates??
bro, read the room.... you have a bunch of women who just got degrees to go out in the world and try their hand at making a difference in it, in whatever field they just went to school and graduated from.... and you talking about being a stay at home mother, only being concerned about raising kids and taking care of your husbands...
bro, read the room.... you have a bunch of women who just got degrees to go out in the world and try their hand at making a difference in it, in whatever field they just went to school and graduated from.... and you talking about being a stay at home mother, only being concerned about raising kids and taking care of your husbands...
Posted on 5/19/24 at 1:32 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Why is it an un compromising pursuit of religious ideals?
How is it not?
If all the things he grouped together are in defiance of God’s will, to the point where euthanasia and surrogacy are under the same umbrella, then he isn’t compromising on much of anything, right?
I feel like you’re getting really hung up on this word “zealot” - It’s not a slur, at least not in the denotative sense that I’m using it. It just means fanatical. The more you argue that his beliefs are deeply intertwined with the exact verbiage of the Catholic doctrine, the more you’re arguing for his zealotry, not against it.
quote:
But your reaction to it comes from a place where you think he said "disorder," as in a psychiatric disorder (would be my guess)
Nope. Like I said, you did a good job of clearing that up already.
quote:
bunch of people believing or not believing a thing is not proof of it's veracity though.
Amen! But a strict adherence to the doctrine is again more evidence of diehard devotion to an ideology, even in the face of more contemporary beliefs and methods concerning childbirth. Uncompromising.
Posted on 5/19/24 at 2:39 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
Usually couldn’t care less about voting but I am begging any of the people who downvoted to please speak up about their thoughts on about IVF being the same as euthanasia. I’d love to hear this. Don’t be shy
He's specifically reciting Catholic doctrine on multiple social issues to a Catholic audience at a Catholic university. Appreciate you not being shy about your ignorance on this though.
Posted on 5/19/24 at 2:40 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
NawlinsTiger9
CLOWN
L
O
W
N
Posted on 5/19/24 at 2:45 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
How is it not?
Because zealotry is the pursuit of, as you mention. Not the belief in. Believing in things is not zealotry. Speaking of things is not zealotry. All Butker did was stand up and profess his beliefs, nothing more.
Lighting yourself on fire is zealotry. Killing people for your beliefs is zealotry. Blowing up buildings is zealotry.
Otherwise, your definition of religion would mean that zealotry is the belief in the doctrine of the faith. Of any faith. And that non-zealotry, or what you would deem acceptable religious belief, is understanding doctrine and then compromising on that doctrine. That belief, and doctrine, are relative. And heck, that is a different conversation.
To call him, and everyone else, meaning Christians who believe what he believes, zealots, is absolutely asinine. Are you really ready to call pro-life people zealots? And, fwiw, not every person who is pro-life is super religious.
quote:
Nope. Like I said, you did a good job of clearing that up already.
I cleared it up, but it didn't prove to you that he isn't comparing IVF to surrogacy as the same thing, as the same level of disorder, severity or problem? Or that these things are more complicated than "I don't support birthing a life?" It didn't change your approach to zealotry?
I mean, I hope, but maybe I didn't.
Posted on 5/19/24 at 2:51 pm to Gifman
quote:
CLOWN
L
O
W
N
This post was edited on 5/19/24 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 5/19/24 at 2:54 pm to DemonKA3268
That’s not very Christian of you
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